Lonewolf: Hello everyone
Kim^^: hi
wacky: yo mamma
Lonewolf: Tonight I have all the disabled bases covered
beat: Hi
Lonewolf: If you are disabled you either had to be born with it or acquired it
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wacky: but Judi?????
Lonewolf: Let's review the rules before we begin
wacky: what if its both?
Lonewolf: Type ! to make a statement
Lonewolf: Type ? to ask a question
Lonewolf: I will call on you one at a time
Lonewolf: either one will do brian
Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: Brian
Lonewolf: Bri?
wacky: born dis I never felt I had any limit ations its just how i was
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Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: beat?
Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: for ww and for hazem
beat: yes i feel what you never know you never miss
WonderW: thanks
Lonewolf: Karen
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Lonewolf: 1. If you are born disabled, does it make it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Kark: I feel that with me it was just instinct that I servive and do like everyone else becase I was born with it
GennyIrsh: Have I missed much?
Lonewolf: Karen?
WonderW: no, dear
wacky: !
Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: yes i agree with others, have never known myself as not disabled
GennyIrsh: I'm sorry I ever new how to walk.
GennyIrsh: I hate it.
Lonewolf: Genny please type ! or ? and I will call on you
GennyIrsh: Oh ok
Lonewolf: Brian
GennyIrsh: sorry
Lonewolf: np
wacky: I will say that even tho i accepted early dis and didnt feel different I still saw that I was Different
Lonewolf: gismo
WonderW: ! to say somethung and ? to ask a question, Genn
gismo: i at lest had 18 yrs to look back on and appreciate
WonderW: 1
Lonewolf: ww
Lonewolf: Laura?
WonderW: I think it is easier, but it makes socialuzing with nondisabled kids harder as a child, if parents not caerful
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW: sorry, am slower typing lately, tighter
beat: You alway go though stages where you whish you where normal
Lonewolf: If you guys go ahead and type in what you want to say it will make you feel less pressured
Lonewolf: how so beat?
Lonewolf: hazem
hazem: I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I got used to my disability, it becomes normal, and you forget about it.
Kim^^: vr58769890--0-o 675t45 12` 3b57/h- 650'/
hazem: Its how you mix in with the rest of society, and that shouldn't changewhenever you become disabled.
beat: As you grow you see your brothers doing thing you can't do that hard
Lonewolf: Genny
GennyIrsh: I am really sad that I ever new how to walk
GennyIrsh: It hurts because a soon as I stop walking ppl left me.
Kim^^: i ging onyo bed bitite yakl
Lonewolf: Brian
^^shaz^^: bue kim
GennyIrsh: nit kim
wacky: i donno Lara I had the oposite prob I couldnt socialize w/ dis kids but then I was expected to pass as AB as much as I could i think it can go both was
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wacky: ways
^^shaz^^: bye kim
WonderW: it's hard when siblings tease or act abusive, which happenrd to me]
Lily: what can parents do, to make there dis. child feel better abt themselves?
wacky: yea i know
GennyIrsh: or wishing you where them.
wacky: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lily: oops, sorry, hit enter
Lonewolf: brian
WonderW: my dad was like that, Brian, my mom opposite, was very confusing
GennyIrsh: I can't talk about this stuff It upset me too much.
wacky: they can create an open forum for dis kids and their sitalk openly not to ignore it
GennyIrsh: Goodnight and GodBless.
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^^shaz^^: bye gen
wacky: they can create an open forum for dis kids and their sib to talk openly not to ignore it
Lily: i c
WonderW: yeah
Lonewolf: anny
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anny1: i think that grief about dis. goes in cycles
anny1: from grief to acceptance
WonderW: but that seems rare
anny1: anger to acceptance
Lonewolf: Alison
Lily: i agree, in the case of acquired ones, it the same, anny
Lonewolf: gis
gismo: ?t
Lily: stages of acceptance
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Lonewolf: gismo go ahead
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gismo: hello?
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Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: go on beat
Lonewolf: shaz
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^^shaz^^: gee,i have difficulty in accepting mine, as society tends to remind me, am trying to fight it.
Lonewolf: what is your dis?
WonderW-: are we on same question?
^^shaz^^: deaf
Lonewolf: yes
WonderW-: ok
Lonewolf: yes I can see that
Kark: ?!
^^shaz^^: ok
Lonewolf: Ithink itsBrian, karen
beat: I don't feel they can do that much at all except encourge them to do as much as they can
Lonewolf: then Karen I meant
Kark: I had a big family, do you think that made a difference?, maybe it took the focus off me, busy house
Lonewolf: cud be
Lonewolf: Brian
WonderW-: good
wacky: Um I found that aquirring it was easier
wacky: > Now when I got my SCI in add. to the CP with the CP masked ppl treat my more human.... as if I was AB at one point
Lonewolf: gismo did you have something to say?
Lonewolf: interesting Brian
gismo3: i was cut off please continue
Lonewolf: anny
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anny1: i prefer my 2nd dis. seizure disorder becouse fewer ppl have seen it
Lonewolf: an invisible disability
Lonewolf: france's response:
Lonewolf: ?I was born with all my disabilities except the back injury and I woukd say yes.
Lonewolf: Have I missed anyone?
WonderW-: it's true, I think, that neurological disabilities/perceptual difficulties are the most misunderstood, feared and
WonderW-: looked down upom
Lonewolf: gismo
gismo3: is disability more than a state of mind?
Lonewolf: open floor on that one-just comment freely
WonderW-: depends what you mean
wacky: well yes and no....
Lonewolf: beat?
gismo3: i dont feel ....different im still me
atrpilot: you dam right
beat: Iguess my back injury was the hardest to cope with
anny1: it is the state of mind of the disabled and the non-disabled
wacky: I am a gimp yes but does it stop me from living a full productive life NOT one BIT
^^shaz^^: good on you, wacky.
Lonewolf: Took me a long time to admit I was disabled
Lily: im still me on the inside, but get treated diff. by most of society
beat: Why
wacky: They are afraid of what they do not wish
WonderW-: I mean, if you say it's all a state of mind you may always feel that if you just worked harder, etc, you could remove it, and thus never reach true acceptance; on other hand, if you could, but think you can't, you won't
hazem: Being disabled is part of who I am, I like me, all of me. If I weren't disabled, I'd be someone else.
wacky: They are afraid of what they do not understand I mean
Lonewolf: I like what hazem said
^^shaz^^: yes, thats true.
Lily: i think you right, wacky
gismo3: ooops was loaded question sorry if off topic
Lonewolf: no that was a great question
gismo3: but very informative answers
Lonewolf: bri
anny1: i have times where i feel like hazem and others wen i feel i am screaming inside saying i am just like everybody else and most don't see
Lonewolf: gis
wacky: It wasnt untill i came to disabled I could say how or why I had a SCI or that i had cP too it was lara that forced that out of me
wacky: I hate/ love her for it too
Lonewolf: lol
gismo3: i find most people treat me normal once they know me only strangers treat me diiff
beat: If we can't come to the poin where we can say yes we are disable and then get on with life act
WonderW-: I'm proud that you do
Lonewolf: Yes after I admitted I was disabled life became easier
wacky: sorry lara its true
Lonewolf: in my head I mean
anny1: i put pressure on those who know me well to treat me normally
WonderW-: I know :)
Lonewolf: anyone else before we moveon?
Lonewolf: ok back to the rules
Lonewolf: 2. If you acquire your disabilities, is it easier to accept your
Lonewolf: limitations?
Lonewolf: gis
gismo3: yes
Lonewolf: bri
beat: being a chirstan made it easy for me
Lonewolf: brian
wacky: harder for me but then I went form being fairly independent walker to helpless
Lonewolf: charlie
wacky: and HOW I GOT it had a lot to do w/ my adjustment
atrpilot: yes yes anyes
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Lonewolf: ali
Lily: harder, it was a complete identity change, i had to redefine whi i was
Lonewolf: hazem
Lily: who
WonderW-: well, I don't think so, when I was younger, I could use a walker, and I went through all kinds of self-blame and guilt that I could no longer do that
hazem: It shouldn't make a difference,
Lonewolf: Karen
Kark: I took several class on how people have difficulties dealing with change and I assume that becoming disabled might be the same
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: anny
Kark: it was to do with business but i could relate
anny1: i see what ww means recently when i was faced with possibly losing some independence iwas scared and depressed
Lonewolf: me too anny
Lonewolf: bri
wacky: the scariest thing about a new dis.... is starting over all ur building blocks crumble
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: France said no to the question
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Lonewolf: beat?
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Lonewolf: ali
Lily: u feel very alone and scared at first
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Lily: it takes time to adjust
Lonewolf: gis
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gismo3: the bigest question i had was ....why me
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Lonewolf: Yes I think why me is the hardest thing to overcome
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Lonewolf: anyone else before we move on?
WonderW-: when my
beat: Getting people to accept us the way we are is the biggest problem
Lonewolf: sorry-bri
wacky: mine was Why did I survive
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Lonewolf: oh yes beat
Lonewolf: bri?
Lonewolf: eve
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WonderW-: inability to walk happened, it was the result of trauma, one day I could, the next day I couldn't, was hard
wacky: yea judi
beat: not sure what you mean
eve: has anyone heard of elizabeth kubler ross?and her 5 stages
Lonewolf: yes
Lonewolf: applies here
eve: she deals with death and dying
gismo3: ? not i
Lonewolf: beat I'm sorry what about?
WonderW-: even just with a walker it was tough, though I could never walk without it
Lonewolf: Elizabeth Kubler Ross outlines the stages of death and dying
beat: !'
Lonewolf: These apply to the death or dying of a portion of your life also
Lonewolf: such as aquiring a disability
Lonewolf: max
Woz: ansewerd
Lonewolf: eve
eve: she sais you have to work through different stages of working through the problem. it's like working through your disablity too
Lonewolf: yes
Lonewolf: beat
anny1: ! i agree eve
beat: Don't you feel that accepent is a big probem
Lonewolf: yes it is
Lonewolf: brian
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: what is the topic please
wacky: Somethimes i feel as tho i have a foot in each world involed in both yet belong to niether
Lonewolf: born or acquired disability
Lily: Tonight's topic is : Born with it, or acquired it - pros and cons
Lonewolf: which is harder to accept
Lonewolf: eve
eve: some ppeople accept the disablity and others nevrer will
^^shaz^^: yep
Lonewolf: hazem'
hazem: Isn't it a bit drastic to compare disability with death?
Lonewolf: no not at all
Lonewolf: you go through the same emotional responses
Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: bri
WonderW-: well, we're not trying to suggest they are synonomois, hazen, could be applied to general loss
wacky: hasem no because its like looking at to diff ppl the person i was before SCI doesnt exist I have a saying I am as I am, and I am still here
Lonewolf: eve
eve: in both cases you're suffering a loss. so there are points that are similar between becoming disabled and accepting one's death but they are not the ssame.
^^shaz^^: well said, wacky
wacky: and I play supermant theme every morning
Lily: lol
wacky: humor good med
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: i seen death death today and no comparsonto my disibality
Lonewolf: its the loss cam
WonderW-: :) glad to have been part of that, Brian
beat: if we are talking about dying then we must beleive rthat there is a god, or what the point
Lonewolf: loss og your former self
Lonewolf: no I don't think e are talking about dying
camille3: ! !
hazem: !
Lonewolf: cam
camille3: inever felt a loss like I did today
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Lonewolf: what from Cam
Lonewolf: hazem
hazem: I see, I don't have a former self, so I didn't understand. Got Polio when I was 9 months old.
Lonewolf: ok
camille3: I buried a close and dear friend and thats worst then loosing the bottom half of my body
anny1: ! denial, anger, depression,acceptance are 4 of the 5 stages of grief experienced with most losses
Lonewolf: yes cam I'm sorry for your loss
Lonewolf: have I missed anyone?
* wacky hugs cam
Lonewolf: 3. If you acquired your disabilities, was the psychological adjustment
Lonewolf: difficult? If so, what helped and what didn't?
* WonderW- does too
* Lonewolf does too
Lonewolf: bri
* Lily does too
camille3: thanks all
Lonewolf: cam
wacky: actually it was for me a relief I couldnt hide it any more so I stopped listening to my families vies that I had to live in their world
wacky: views
camille3: my familty helped a great deal
Lonewolf: so in your case it helped
WonderW-: good point
Lonewolf: the only acquired disability is the back injury that
Lonewolf: worsened my mobility. I really did not have a problem accepting it as
Lonewolf: I am still active, dance, sing karaoke and have my odd methods of
Lonewolf: pain management (remember the singing the loudest Alanis Morissette
Lonewolf: songs in karaoke and being active, dancing and having fun) Also I
Lonewolf: work as I always did, I teach college and go for my doctoral degree.
Lonewolf: I have been to France too.
Lonewolf: I'm sorry that was France's answer
Lonewolf: Karen
wacky: yup EMESLIY i could jst be bria and not brian hiding among ab's
Kark: hello
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Lonewolf: eve
eve: it was how others treated adam when he became disabled that was diffecult
Lonewolf: how so eve
Lonewolf: Karen
eve: they did not understand the disablity itself or how much effert it took to overcome it
Kark: yes lw?
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: did you want to say something Karen?
Kark: Was having system problems, sorry
Kark: what question are we on
beat: I felt it was harder for me when my dis started getting worse.
Lonewolf: How we adjusted to acquiring a disability
Lonewolf: really beat?
wacky: !
Lonewolf: actually beat it is the same for me
Lonewolf: Ali
Lily: by helping other ppl, i started to feel like i had a purpose again
Lonewolf: bri
wacky: walking is overated all the years i walked to be like others i had no energy left now i just go and go and go like energizer bunny
Lonewolf: I go in stages but as I get worse it gets harder
WonderW-: I agree, there, Brian
Lonewolf: shaz
beat: yes when we can no lonnger do things we could do even with a dis. than it very hard
Lonewolf: shaz?
wacky: I gotta go spasms making it imposs ible to type fast
^^shaz^^: adjusting to dis, also depend on support from family, but it also depends on the strengths of one who has the dis. its hard.
Lonewolf: ok
Lily: ok
WonderW-: ok brian
Lonewolf: yes it is shaz
Lonewolf: 4. If you were born disabled, does it make you angry to think of your
Lonewolf: > limitations? or does the old adage that if you never had it you don't =
Lonewolf: > miss
^^shaz^^: ok, wacky.
Lonewolf: it apply?
WonderW-: I think both
Lonewolf: shaz
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^^shaz^^: absolute yes, but not in a sympathetic way. dont want it.
Lonewolf: eve
eve: yes you miss things but it all depends how you see disan;lity
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: cam
eve: as a tool or a problem
camille3: I think some things i had i wouldn't miss if I hadn't experence them
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: my recent problem is that i know i have fewer limitations than other seem to think i have, is frustrating
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Lonewolf: can see hwere it wud be
Lonewolf: laura
Lonewolf: ali
Lily: yes, agree cam, it a sense of loss, of knowing what you had, were
Lonewolf: laura did you have something?
WonderW-: I think I have both experiences, but mostly anger only when ppl want me to move oit of thr way
Lonewolf: beat
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Lonewolf: France:
Lonewolf: It is more if you never had it you do not miss it. I do not know any better. I do know know
Lonewolf: what it is like to have motor/spatial and perceptual skills and I
Lonewolf: have mild CP, severe NI, severe ataxia and perceptual problems. what
Lonewolf: frustrates me is the work limitations I have. I have a 148 IQ and yet
Lonewolf: I am so limited to the kind of work I can do because I function so
Lonewolf: poorly in all areas except for intellectual/academic ones. I have
Lonewolf: motor, spatial, mobility, movement, coordination, and judgment
Lonewolf: defic
Lonewolf: deficits necessary for all job functions. Therefore the only work I
Lonewolf: can do is college teaching and I am p/t because I am still going for
Lonewolf: my doctorate. need doctorate to tech f/t. I am frustrated at teh
Lonewolf: earning work and money making limits imposed by my disabilities
Lonewolf: ali
beat: Have we all found that as we got older our dis got worse?
Lily: do we have to read these long answers by france? thet so confusing
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Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: mine will continue to get worse-anyone else
^^shaz^^: yes beat.
Lily: it ok, not yor fault
Lonewolf: anyone else?
Lonewolf: go on beat
Lonewolf: ok as we sum up-here is the last question
Lonewolf: 5. Which of the two are easier to cope with?
beat: When I was young every said you where lucky because you will never get worse
Lonewolf: over all
beat: sorry
Lonewolf: np beat I understand
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Lonewolf: I think acquired is harder
Lily: this is a meeting, mas
MASTAK101: hey
Lonewolf: for the reasons alison listed earlier
MASTAK101: oh...im sorry
MASTAK101: bye
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Lonewolf: 5. Which of the two are easier to cope with?
Lonewolf: being born with it, but I sure wish I could function better and thus
Lonewolf: earn more. France
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW-: acquired is esp harder if it is the result of abuse, because no one understands that well
Lonewolf: hazem
beat: the one your born with
hazem: In the short run, it is probably harder to acquire it, but in the long run, it evens out. Most of tthe pain I hear about being disabled
Lonewolf: ali
hazem: involves our treatment by society, and they don't diffentiate.
Lonewolf: you said a mouthful hazem!!
hazem: Sorry,
Lily: a friend of mine born with CP, says acquired harder
Lonewolf: no I meant that as good
Lonewolf: beat
Lonewolf: I close my eyes and see a different Judi-I look in the mirror and see someone I don't know
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MASTAK101: ok...im back
Lonewolf: anny go on
anny1: you really think ablebodied don't differentiate?
Lonewolf: between acquired and born?
anny1: yes
Lonewolf: no I don't
Lonewolf: do you?
MASTAK101: what are we takling aobut?
Lonewolf: acquired vs born with disabilities
Lonewolf: which is hardest
WonderW-: they do differentiate
Lonewolf: beat-you ready
Lonewolf: think so Laura?
beat: now we are really in new ball gAME BECAUSE people can't tell the driffent between disability
WonderW-: but maybe not as much as we in the disabled community do
WonderW-: yes
MASTAK101: acquired .... because if you are born with a disabilite.. you dont really know how easyer it could have been...b ut when you acquire one....you know how easy it once was...and how it may never be that easy again
anny1: yes i think i do becouse just seems like if you have been ablebodied at one time or another you have shared
WonderW-: absolutely
WonderW-: I've seen it
anny1: experiences with the ablebodied
MASTAK101: !ping
MASTAK101: im sorry i didnt know the ! rule...sorry for speaking out of turn
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Mooooooo: maybe everyone should be disabled for a week
^^shaz^^: yes, i agree with that.
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MASTAK101: margo?
Lily: i agree, mast
Lonewolf: sorry
Lonewolf: got bumped
Lonewolf: anyone els have anything?
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: lol moooooooo i volunteer
WonderW-: but we are just a guilty, if not more, we say others can't do what we can, label ppl negatively, etc
beat: Even within the disability we don't mix
MASTAK101: ! i know...but threre has to be a line drawn somewhere
WonderW-: right
Lonewolf: I still agree with beat
MASTAK101: you know?
Lonewolf: ali
Lily: agree, mast
Lonewolf: sometimes I even feel left out here
Lonewolf: beat
WonderW-: a line between what and what? it's fine to say someone can't, but not ok to judge becausesomeone else can
beat: if i walk down the road and past a quad they don't want to know me
Lonewolf: why beat?
Mooooooo: MASTAK, it may be a wise choice too
MASTAK101: am i wrong to think that?
Lonewolf: no
WonderW-: no
Lily: no
WonderW-: just stating
Lily: thats reality, mask
Lonewolf: well as much as e all want to say we are part of the able bodied community we are in our own category
Lonewolf: anny
anny1: i would choose the amputee surgeon over the blind, but that has to do with ability not acceptance
Lonewolf: true
Lonewolf: max
Woz: good meeting thanks judi and all
Lonewolf: yes max is right it is time to close
beat: but we all have the same thing That is a dis we may not like it but it is the same
Lonewolf: beat did you have something else
Woz: i did not say that
Lily: thx judi:))
Lonewolf: lol max
beat: no
* MASTAK101 asks when is the next meeting??????
Lonewolf: You are welcome to stay and talk if you like
Lily: im off, night all:)
Woz: just take it for what it is
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Lonewolf: next wed
MASTAK101: time??? around?
Mooooooo: every wednesday, 6 pacific
END