*** LOG OPENED: Wed Jan 13 19:00:05 1999
---
Participants:
  disabled
  ChanServ (nanook@eskimo.com)
  Lily
  Lonewolf
  Mooooooo (azdse@uswest.net)
  deadheadf
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<Lonewolf> ok are e ready to begin? 
<Mooooooo> yep 
<Lily> yes 
<T_J> yes 
<Lonewolf> Being disabled effects everything we do, who we 
    are and how we handle our lives. 
<Lonewolf> When the disability is present most of our 
    lives, we often enter into relationships 
<Lonewolf> with all the problems out front so to speak. 
<Lonewolf> For discussion's sake, let's divide our 
    relationships into 3 groups: a: family 
<Lonewolf> b: friends c: mates 
<cher> 3 
<Lonewolf> 1. If your disability has been present for most 
    of your life: 
<Lonewolf> Has it effected your family life? 
<Lonewolf> What has the effect been on friendships-harder to 
    make friends? 
<Lonewolf> Have you been able to find a mate or does your 
    disability prevent this? 
<Lonewolf> 
<Lonewolf> Let's start at the beginning 
<Lonewolf> Those of you that have had a disability for 
    life 
<Lonewolf> how has it effected your family life 
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<cher> over protection 
<Lonewolf> parents? 
<cher> yes 
<MsAmazin> I was treated just as my brothers were 
<wacky> parents are a joke if u a dis kid 
<Lonewolf> has it effected your adult life? 
<wacky> i was treated diff 
<wacky> well yea 
<MsAmazin> not so wacky..some folks are able to deal with 
    it better than others 
<Lonewolf> I agree 
<T_J> Not mine, they have supported me totally 
<deadheadf> no different 3 are disabled and 3 are not 
<cher> it has affected my adult life because i am hesitant 
    about letting my emotions show 
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<Lonewolf> carly I kno this is a good topic for you-have 
    a comment on this? 
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<MsAmazin> my Dad was very on hard on me to make me more 
    independent..looking back it was a good thing 
<Lonewolf> did you resent it at the time? 
<MsAmazin> absolutely :) 
<wacky> am speaking from my experience Ms one set of 
    parents tried to kill me cuz of it and other set figured 
    they would ignore it the Disability word was forbidden in 
    both houses 
<Lonewolf> cher are you saying they increased your dependcy 
<wacky> my step mom was may savior 
<T_J> If it wasnīt for my mother I wouldnīt have been 
    were I am today. 
<Lonewolf> how so T_J? 
<HelloKit> i would say the way it has affected my family 
    life most is that they would tend to use the basic help 
    i needed as blackmail material - if you aren't nice to 
    your brother, we're not going to help you get dressed, 
    eat, etc. 
<deadheadf> my family looks to me as a roll model...first 
    to grad from university and hold good job....sometime hard 
    to be roll model 
<Lonewolf> that's cruel 
<Lonewolf> yes it is carrie 
<wacky> Very 
<Lily> true 
<Lonewolf> daniel? 
<T_J> She kept on searching for a way to make me better, 
    after I was made brain-injred and trained me, although 
    nobody else did, and my father helped 
<wacky> i found i had to challenge my father in order to 
    bne just any kid 
<Lonewolf> so we are seeing both sides 
<Lonewolf> T_J that is wonderful 
<Lonewolf> Daniel????? 
<T_J> Yes. 
<Mooooooo> yes? 
<Lonewolf> you have a life long disability 
<Lonewolf> comments? 
<wacky> we all do now 
<Mooooooo> it was hard 
<Lily> yup:)) 
<Mooooooo> still is 
<T_J> When I was 4― we began travelling to the U.S to an 
    Institute there. 
<Mooooooo> but i do it anyway 
<Lonewolf> that is great 
<cher> its kind of like i feel inferior, i feel as if i 
    dont meet their expectations, when i worked for many yrs, 
    married , had a child, divorced........ my brother on the 
    other hand seems to do no wrong even tho he is div with 
    3 kids, has gone bankrupt, cant keep his head above 
    water.... i have never asked my parents for anything, and 
    the only time he comes around is when he wants money. 
<Lonewolf> do you all thinkit has been harder to make and 
    maintain friendships? 
<Lonewolf> esp during school years 
<Lily> the born disabled ppl?? 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<T_J> Definitely 
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<wacky> there is one thing both disabilities tuaght me..... 
    NOTHING WORTH HAVING EVER COMES EASILY 
<T_J> Was injured when I was one 
<cher> yes i felt like part of the woodwork 
<MsAmazin> heh...I was the only disabled in the school 
    district...everyone wanted to meet me :) 
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<deadheadf> all my friends were disabled...went to segrigated 
    schools 
<Lonewolf> isolated? 
<Lonewolf> do you think that helped carrie? 
<wacky> i had an easy time till 4th grade but 5 -8 were 
    hell 
<T_J> Donīt have do much disabled friend irl 
<HelloKit> yes and no - in school there were two groups, 
    the kids who wanted nothing to do with you, and the kids 
    who thought you were cool and wanted to be your best 
    friend, just because of the disability 
<T_J> Went to an ordinary school the whole time 
<MsAmazin> I didn't have any disabled friend...till I met 
    Ty 
<HelloKit> both are insulting in different ways 
<Lonewolf> Carly brought up a good point 
<wacky> I tried to pass as much as i could 
<T_J> I donīt agree hellokit 
<MsAmazin> Carly...that is so sad 
<Lonewolf> sometimes kids want to be your friend because 
    they think it is a cool thing to do 
<wacky> to hide the dis 
<anny1> i have had a hard time making friends ,but the 
    ppl who will be friends to disabled are generally the ones 
    worth having, others fade fast 
<deadheadf> yes......I learned that things could be 
    worse...physically...but I was lucky cause with so many 
    brothers and sisters....there was alway none disabled kids 
    at home...best of both worlds I guess 
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<Lonewolf> yes 
<T_J> Those being my friend didnīt care about my 
    disability, they were friends just because I was myself 
<Lonewolf> now what about mates? 
<T_J> Good point anny, though not all are 
<Lonewolf> born with disability-finding a mate 
<wacky> Depends if the know the rule abt mates not being 
    a caregiver 
<HelloKit> i had a couple true friends in school who are 
    still friends to this day... the rest of them, as soon as 
    more disabled kids arrived in the school system, it wasn't 
    so cool anymore 
<Lonewolf> sad 
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<Lonewolf> how hard is it to find a true romantic 
    relationship 
<Lonewolf> when you were born disabled 
<T_J> I have still contact with a few, but then again 
    some has let me down too 
<wacky> hard but not impossibl 
<Lily> i cant speak yet?? 
<Lonewolf> not yet dear 
<Lily> ok:) 
<Lonewolf> next question lil 
<deadheadf> I have only dated disabled guys.....I don't 
    no...I think its easier cause there is a certain 
    understanding when you can't do certain things...I think 
    were more excepting 
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<wacky> harder when born or early dis judi 
<T_J> Got a few relationship (girlfriends) 
<Lonewolf> I'm sure it is bri 
<MsAmazin> I'm dating my first disabled guy.... 
<T_J> Itīs much harder to get one, I think 
<Lonewolf> do you look for disabled mates? 
<anny1> i feel incredably lucky as i have a wonderful, 
    intellegent hubby who happens to be non-disabled 
<wacky> ppl think u defective 
<T_J> No 
<Mooooooo> i only dated one non-disabled person 
<wacky> hey I date who i like dis or not 
<T_J> Doesnīt matter, I go on my feelings 
<Lonewolf> I know Carly is engaged 
<MsAmazin> I was never around the disabled.... 
<Lonewolf> Daniel is involved 
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<Lonewolf> Ms is involved 
<MsAmazin> I'm engaged :) 
<Lonewolf> congrat 
<MsAmazin> thanks :) 
<wacky> but i felt strange around other gimp growing up 
<T_J> Nice =) 
<Lonewolf> anny are you disabled from birth? 
<wacky> in my fam. disability was a foul word 
<anny1> yes 
<wacky> Any is amc same as mooo 
<anny1> amc 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<anny1> meet hibby throught dating service 
<T_J> But I was more insecure when younger, found myself 
    more now =) 
<anny1> hubby 
<Lonewolf> so it looks like you are the only one with a 
    non disabled husband 
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<Lonewolf> how so T_J 
<Lonewolf> security with maturity 
<T_J> Iīm more self-confident now 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<Lonewolf> 2. If your disability came on later in life: 
<Lonewolf> Has it changed your relationship with family, if 
    so, how? 
<Lonewolf> Are your friends fair weather friends or the 
    lasting type or did you make 
<Lonewolf> new friends or do you have any friends? 
<Lonewolf> If single, same question as in #1. If married, 
    what difference hs it made? 
<Lonewolf> Lily? 
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<wacky> same as before judi one family caused second dis 
    other said I was lucky i had a ramp 
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<deadheadf> my disability has gotten worse with time....my 
    family has been more supportive.... 
<wacky> Dis was still a dirty word 
<Amadeo> i's nhorrible for me...they treat like some fragile 
    treasure like a fabrege egg and mom dotes, I think she's 
    ignoring my siblings 
<In> my dis came 2 yrs. after I was married 
<Lily> well, everything has changed, yes 
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<Lonewolf> great carrie 
<In> it brought my hubby & I closer, even though we were 
    always close 
<Lonewolf> Rav-I'm sure u feel smoothered 
<Lily> some friends, and my husband, never accepted it 
<Lonewolf> good marilyn 
<Amadeo> my friends abandoned me for the most part...my 
    lover left me... 
<Lonewolf> Lily has a story to tell and has asked for a 
    few moments 
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<Lily> in, i opposite, my husband has abused me 
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<Amadeo> it's horrible Judi, I feel annoyance and shame' 
<Lonewolf> Rav I'm so sorry 
<Amadeo> :) 
<In> I am so sorry lily 
<wacky> Did i miss alis story? 
<Lonewolf> no 
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<Amadeo> shoot him 
<Lonewolf> Rav you shouldn't feel that way 
<wacky> judi pste wht i mssed 
<Amadeo> yea well... 
<wacky> in p/c 
<Amadeo> i'll hoot him 
<In> u don't deserve that, no1 does 
<In> sorry I will be quiet 
<Amadeo> i can't tolerate spoucal abuse 
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<wacky> i dont either 
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<Lonewolf> no In that's fine 
<In> thx 
<Lonewolf> wacky youdidn't miss anything 
<wacky> okie 
<Lonewolf> Lily go ahead hon 
<wacky> thanx 
<Lonewolf> ali? 
<wacky> ali? 
<Amadeo> Princes Ali 
<In> we r here 4 u lily 
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<Lonewolf> ok maybe lil needs some time 
<Lonewolf> Dony 
<Driveshaf> ya 
<Lily> he wont accept my dis., says it all in my head, 
    and im crazy 
<Lonewolf> did your disability effect your family? 
<Lily> he wont change, so i'll leave him 
<Lily> i will not be abused any longer 
<Lily> end:)) 
<Lily> i have found someone who loves me for who i am 
<Amadeo> yu go gurl! 
<wacky> [Lily PING reply]: 33 seconds 
<wacky> - 
<Lily> i lagged 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<DaniG> U didn't need that other jerk, huh? 
<Amadeo> change servers 
<Amadeo> ibb 
<In> well then lily go 4 the happiness, u deserve it 
<Lily> k 
<Lonewolf> her family does not accept her being disabled 
<Lily> yes 
<T_J> Lily: What dis do you have? 
<Lily> but my wacky does 
<Lonewolf> what about ur kids? 
<In> my brother & mother were like that 
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<wacky> yes hun i do 
<Lonewolf> with you In? 
<Lily> i had brain tumor, tj 
<T_J> Ok 
<deadheadf> family is not always blood relatives....but the 
    people who always make you feel loved and at home 
<Lonewolf> and a stroke 
<wacky> i accept who u are and what u are 
<Lily> and then surgery, then stroke 
<Lonewolf> absolutely carrie 
<Lonewolf> Dony? 
<Lily> true, carrie 
<Amadeo> hugh V. is an insensitive self-centered baboon imo 
<Driveshaf> yup 
<Lily> lol, raven 
<eve> where was your family when they did the surgery? and 
    when you were in the hospital? 
<Lonewolf> didn't your dis end your marriage? 
<Driveshaf> yes 
<In> yes they did not accept me being disabled & being so 
    independant, they thought I should depend on ppl but I 
    never will as long as I can help it, they have finally 
    realize that now 
<Lonewolf> I am drawing you out because you and Lily had 
    similiar experiences 
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<Lily> eve, they came when it fit there schedule 
<wacky> I found that becoming dis is easier fore ppl to 
    accept as if I was normal at some point 
<Lonewolf> Lily Dony has been there 
<Lily> o, ic 
<DaniG> I hate how the 1st think people meet is the 
    wheelchair 
<Lonewolf> he is divorced now 
<eve> they saw proof how can they deny that? 
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<Lonewolf> Dony is shy 
<Lonewolf> I became disabled 
<Amadeo> i think it's mortality slap in the face danig 
<Secrets> DanG, don't you think that you can change them 
    only seeing the wheelchair first? 
<anny1> i find that very initeresting wacky 
<In> I agree with u Dani 
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<wacky> is true anny 
<Lonewolf> my family is usually supportive 
<Lily> no, eve, they dont deny it happened, but think that 
    its all better now 
<Lonewolf> I asked Cindy to come to presentthe family side 
    of the picture 
<Lonewolf> Cindy 
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<Amadeo> they see the wheels or whatevr and realize 
    subconciously that it COULD be them 
<wacky> if i just tell ppl abt SCI the treat me as if i 
    have a brain if i mention CP The talk real S l o w l 
    y 
<Lonewolf> could you tell what the able bodied family side 
    is 
<TJ> <---T_J 
<Lily> lol 
<eve> they probably deny other things too in your family 
    lily 
<CindyB> Well I think we are pretty much like everyone 
    else 
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<CindyB> My husband goes to work everyday 
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<CindyB> I stay at home and take care of the house and 
    kids 
<DaniG> When I meet someone online I let them get to know 
    me before I tell them I'm paralyzed 
<CindyB> I have food ready when he gets home 
<CindyB> we all get along great 
<Lonewolf> I meant in regard to having an increasingly 
    dependent mother 
<T_J> They donīt to me 
<CindyB> lol....you are wonderful and no trouble at all. 
    That's my point dear 
<T_J> wacky 
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<Amadeo> actually danny, i'm the oposit, my life is an 
    open book...take it or leave it 
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<Lonewolf> ok not getting what I wanted here 
<DaniG> Hey wacky, I'm C6-7 too 
<wacky> ur lucky tj 
<Secrets> Judi, can I help? 
<In> what is wrong judi 
<Lonewolf> sure debi 
<anny1> i interview ppl over the phone before thay meet me 
    in person it is interesting to see the looks on their 
    faces when they realize thay have been talking to person 
    in this body 
<Lonewolf> understand anny 
<Secrets> my family life is not normal, but we cope and 
    adjust with what is necessary 
<DaniG> who are U talking to wacky? 
<Lonewolf> it is hard sometimes I think for family to see 
    you in a diff light 
<Secrets> we feel to go day by day, but there are two 
    children who do not want to acknowledge either mine or our 
    daughter's disability 
<Lonewolf> that is diff debi 
<Secrets> it's hard for one son and daughter 
<Lonewolf> are they resentful 
<eve> my family is very supportive 
<Secrets> it was easier for them to be too busy to take 
    me places, than have to bother with me taking the 
    wheelchair or scooter 
<T_J> wacky: Maybe itīs different between our countries 
<eve> and my husband is also supporrtive 
<Secrets> i wouldnt say resentful, I would say, they just 
    do not know what to do 
<Lonewolf> I think the difference is mor with attitudes T_J 
<T_J> Or.. you met the wrong kind of people. There are 
    always such 
<Lonewolf> IC Debi 
<Secrets> they are convinced we love Mandy more and give 
    her more, but the others do not feel that way 
<CindyB> It is hard for me to say, I honestly don't see 
    things any different than they were 3 years ago when you 
    were on your feet and driving. I know they are different 
    because of the shape you've gotten into and the pain you 
    have 24/7 and you become pretty much fully dependent, but 
    I'm biased and see you the way you were 3 years ago. I'm 
    sure your 2 sons and daughter could do better. 
<wacky> my sister was jelous , cause parents used the word 
    special 
<T_J> Can be LW 
<In> I think some people think cause u have a disability, 
    u cannot think or talk 4 uself, I know when we r at a 
    store 4 ex. the clerk will talk 2 my hubby, not me, I 
    tell them that it is my legs that don't work not my 
    mouth it works just fine, sometimes 2 fine:) 
<CindyB> I don't want to admit you are sick 
<Lonewolf> bingo 
<Secrets> you got it! 
<CindyB> pheew 
<Lonewolf> sometimes family does not want to admit you are 
    sick 
<anny1> happens to me too in very agrivating 
<Secrets> i like to stand from my wheelchair sometimes and 
    say, 'could we pelase have this confersation?" <smile> 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<Amadeo> or can't walk anymore... 
<Lonewolf> true 
<wacky> i use humor to detour ppl 
<Lonewolf> esp I think with kids 
<Amadeo> my mom is confient that 'll get up one day and 
    trapse to the mall 
<Secrets> my husband is extremely supportive and often tells 
    the sales clerk he doesnt know how to buy a bra lol 
<CindyB> I know LW feels the same, she seems to get very 
    neglected at times and is expected to do more from certain 
    people than what she can, such as child sitting 
<eve> sometimes they do not want to admitt because they 
    cannot fix it 
<Lonewolf> parents are supposed to stay strong 
<In> lol Debi 
<Amadeo> i agree eve 
<Lonewolf> yes Cindy 
<Lonewolf> and it hurts to say no 
<CindyB> true 
<Lonewolf> mates 
<Lonewolf> Rav do you think your lover left because of 
    your dis? 
<deadheadf> my older sister had it harder than me...we had 
    the same dis...she broke my family in for me and my 
    little brother....she had a harder time dealing with 
    limitations 
<eve> people need to be more honest in the way they 
    communicate 
<Amadeo> definitely 
<Lily> rotten 
<Amadeo> i bet 
<Secrets> i have found a way to be is with humor. It 
    seems that people enjoy a smile, and they see me more 
    like a person, and not a disability... 
<Lonewolf> not easy for everyone though Debi 
<MsAmazin> I agree Secrets :) 
<T_J> deadhead: What kind of dis? 
<eve> i have found that telling them how i feel helps 
<deadheadf> something like SMA 
<Lily> i found a nw mate 
<Amadeo> yea well...done & over with...gotta focus on my 
    future, not my past....... 
<Secrets> i agree. I push myself sometimes. Watch comedies, 
    watch OLD comedies, I have to laugh to keep myself up. 
    Anyone else like that? 
<eve> i have sma 
<Amadeo> oh yes..i love to haha 
<T_J> Always good to have a laugh 
<Lonewolf> I work 
<In> true 
<MsAmazin> I was born a happy person...I'll die a happy 
    person 
<Lonewolf> when I get down I get possessed with tasks 
<CindyB> I have a hard time expressing my true feelings 
    with people, I never want to hurt anyone's feelings or 
    make them mad. If I had a disability, I'd probably let 
    everyone walk all over me. 
<Amadeo> god4u 
<Amadeo> good 
<Amadeo> lol 
<wacky> no i mean i use humor when i meet ppl like if 
    they stare at legs when shaking my hand I say ull pardon 
    me if I DONT get up? 
<deadheadf> I joke all the time.....I'm a smart a@#!!!!! 
<T_J> But I donīt nessesary have to use homour to be 
    accepted, just am who I am 
<eve> it all depends on what your selfimage is 
<Lonewolf> expand on that eve 
<CindyB> good one Bri 
<eve> you project what you freel about yourself 
<CindyB> I'm backwards...lol 
<Secrets> people dont like to see me serious. I have had 
    to accept that the last week or so... 
<T_J> If one is joking all the time (or most of it) 
    people wonīt ever take you seriously 
<eve> if you feel good about yourself it helps with your 
    relationships 
<Lily> i still have problem reading print her 
<wacky> u learn how to use it TJ 
<Lily> i still have problem reading print here 
<Amadeo> authorotarian sec 
<Amadeo> ? 
<Lily> i better go 
<Lonewolf> sorry Lil 
<Lonewolf> ok dear 
<T_J> wacky: I know how to use it. Iīm rather good at it 
    too 
<T_J> =) 
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<Secrets> lily, whats the matter? 
<Lonewolf> helen ere u disabled when you got married 
<Lonewolf> she has perceptual problems debi 
<wacky> :) TJ 
<haa> yes 
<Lonewolf> when print moves fast she can't read it 
<Lonewolf> is MM with you? 
<haa> yep 
<Lonewolf> ok fernando 
<Lonewolf> what attracted you to helen? 
<haa> what did I do now? :) 
<Lonewolf> lol 
<CindyB> ouch! lol 
<Lonewolf> did her disability concern you? 
<haa> her slim attractive figure, but mostly her personality 
<Lonewolf> so her dis didn't bother you? 
<wacky> Helen stop dictating lol 
<Kark> LOL 
<haa> I also was very attracted to older women 
<anny1> lol 
<T_J> =) 
<Lonewolf> 3. Because you are disabled, do you feel like 
    you should be cared for or do you feel 
<Lonewolf> you should try harder to sustain a relationship? 
<Kark> Its funny this comes up today 
* Secrets doesnt think either... 
<Lonewolf> translated into ear of being left alone 
<Lonewolf> hy Karen 
<wacky> um I care fore my own needs 
<Amadeo> my phil.: Don't look for love, let it come to u 
<eve> we think you have to work harder on keeping a 
    relationship together 
<In> same here wacky 
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<deadheadf> I think I try harder to be more indepentent 
<Amadeo> of course, I beleive in predestinattion t 
<eve> but the relationship is by nature deeper as a result 
    and more intense 
<Secrets> if the relationship is already solid, you need to 
    keep a prospective... 
<anny1> have to try to make equal as possible partnership 
<In> I do the same dead 
<haa> I feel it should be no different 
<haa> brb, potty break 
<Kark> I was in a store today and a woman in a 
    wheelchair with am oxygen tub was bying a valentine card 
<DaniG> I just finally got a settlement today. Court was 
    scheduled for Tuesday. 
<Kark> tube 
<Kark> I teared up 
<eve> it's harder from outside influinces interfering 
<Lonewolf> yes Karen wud me too 
<Kark> not because of her as much for me too 
<Secrets> i think when you are on the other side of the 
    track (disABLED) then you can see through the others with 
    more compassion,,,ex,,Karks experience 
<Lonewolf> ok eve gonna have to explain that one 
<T_J> Well, the partner must understand me, but not take 
    care of me, sure, help is good, but she wonīt have to 
    feel like she is only helping 
<Lily> can i say one thing, then i'll leave, format too 
    confusing, im brain damaged and is too varied and fast 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<wacky> ppl think I live in nursing home that i helpless 
<anny1> i don't gett it karen 
<Lily> i have met the most wonderful person here...... 
<CindyB> there are people in Nursing Homes that aren't 
    helpless 
<eve> more stress from outdside more economic stress, more 
    stress from illness 
<Lonewolf> go ahead alison 
<Kark> I have become fearful of trusting that anyone will 
    be able to stat with me when so many normal people have 
    problem 
<Lonewolf> never thought of that Karen 
<Lonewolf> Lil? 
<Amadeo> definition of normal please...anyone 
<Lily> o, for petes sake guys 
<eve> a disabled person has to be very realistic about 
    their relationships 
<T_J> Lily: is it better if we slow down? 
<Lonewolf> yes true-what ali? 
<Lily> let a person FINISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<In> that is truek Amadeo, what is normal????? 
<anny1> yes i agree eve 
<Amadeo> i think the lag-dragon has her 
<In> true 
<deadheadf> a secretly screwed up person= normal 
<Kark> Well my definition was without physical/mental 
    disability 
<Lily> yes, tj, or not interupt 
<Lonewolf> ok everyone give lil a second 
<wacky> no she slow typer 
<Kark> sorry 
<CindyB> well the typing is going at bit fast too 
<Lily> thx:)) 
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<Lily> i met wacky here, and he understands my needs, and 
    wants to fill them 
<Kark> Thats sweet 
<Kark> I am tearing again 
<wacky> well i dont understand em all hun 
<wacky> but am willing to learn 
<Lily> but you try so hard 
<Lily> yes, thats the point 
<Lonewolf> that's what counts 
<wacky> of course I love you 
<T_J> Nobody can do more than that wacky 
<Lonewolf> 4. Is your caregiver a family member or a 
    friend or a mate and if so, is he/she treated 
<Lonewolf> fairly? 
* anny1 feels that warm glow of love in room 
* Lonewolf passes out tissues 
<Woz> k 
<wacky> mine is friend treated real fair 
<Lonewolf> but yours is paid, right? 
<wacky> yup 
<wacky> and he dis too 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<T_J> Mine are family 
<Lonewolf> I think caregivers need some time off 
<Kark> I do sometimes take my frustration on my mom 
<Lonewolf> esp if family 
<wacky> lily says it hard to see where I end and he 
    begins 
<eve> we share everything so adam gets a fair deal 
<deadheadf> the person that helps me out is not 
    family.....I don't like having to depend on my family...that 
    have there own lives and so do I 
<anny1> hubby is understanding and helpful 
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<wacky> or who helps who 
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<T_J> Kark: No one can expect a disabled person to be 
    nice all the time, weīre just as everybody else 
<Lonewolf> my husband loves me and cares for me 
<eve> i think disabled couples are closer 
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<Lily> it very symbiotic relationship between wacky and 
    steve 
* Mooooooo will be back in 10 minutes 
<herbie45> hi 
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<Lonewolf> but I recognize the fact that he occ needs time 
    away 
<herbie45> what's going on here? 
<anny1> we have clear lines of who's chores are who's 
<Kark> Thanks TJ 
<wacky> steve asked 4 mon off i gave it 
<Lily> a meeting, herbie 
<Lonewolf> herbie this is a meeting on relationships 
<herbie45> Lily, am I intruding? 
<In> I do not agree with u fully on that eve 
<Lonewolf> go ahead In 
<T_J> =)' 
<herbie45> relationships? huh, no one around here wants to 
    know who I really am, cause they see my disability before 
    anything else. 
<In> my hubby is not disabled & we r very close 
<Lonewolf> no herbie-join in 
<Lily> no, herbie, yor very welcome 
<eve> how in? 
<herbie45> Thanks Lilly and lonewolf 
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<Lonewolf> I feel guilt over being an increasing burden 
<wacky> i treat steve to lunchg a lot 
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<haa> I agree with In 
<Lonewolf> debi do you ever feel that? 
<Kaz> Has anyone got Parry Rombergs Syndrome here? Its 
    quite rare. 
<eve> in i think communications is the key 
<In> my hubby does not treat me any differant cause I 
    have a dis. we r equals 
<Lonewolf> no Kaz 
<wacky> i dont allow my lover to be my caregiver 
<In> that is true eve 
<eve> in i appreciate what you arte saying 
<deadheadf> I think that it depends on how much help you 
    need....as my disablilty gets worse...I don't want so much 
    help from my family cause I don't want my problems to 
    overwhelm them...so I look for outside people to help 
<herbie45> In, were you disabled before you met your 
    husband? 
<T_J> I think when a able-bodied gets into a relationship 
    with a disabled, there is more real feelings, than two 
    able-bodied 
<anny1> ppl look funny at my hubby when he forgets to 
    open door for me 
<In> no I was not 
<Lonewolf> I can't afford outside help I'm afraid family is 
    it 
<eve> both of us did not know we were disabled when we 
    first met 
<Kaz> Thanks for your reply lone wolf 
<herbie45> In, I was asking because I wonder how people 
    who have disabilities get into relationships with people who 
    do not have them. 
<In> 2 yrs after we got married, I offered him a divorce 
    when I was diag. with ms & ended up in a wc 
<Kark> I have seen too much and I have been in several 
    relationships that it ended up mattering 
<Lonewolf> good question herbie 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, that's what I can't figure out. 
<anny1> dating service herbie is how i met my hubby 
<Lonewolf> maybe haa could anser that or annie 
<wacky> well herbie first i say hello........ 
<Lily> well, i met wacky on the net, and he couldve been 
    a cat for all i knew 
<eve> we met through penfriends 
<herbie45> See, most guys when they see me, they think I 
    can't cook clean or have sex cause I have a cane. 
<In> but he said that he loved me 4 who I am the dis 
    did not make a differance in our relationship 
<herbie45> they don't want to get to know me past that. 
<Kark> MEOW 
<herbie45> hello wacky 
* Lonewolf passes more tissues 
<Lily> that great in 
<suze> has anyone here been involved w/able bodied since 
    they became disabled? 
<Lonewolf> it is difficult I'm sure 
<Kaz> Anyone here got Schleroderma? 
<Lonewolf> no kaz 
<T_J> I have 
<Lonewolf> oh sorry 
<Lily> mine treats me like a mindless child 
<Kark> I mhave never dated a disabled person 
<MsAmazin> I've had several relationships with non disabled 
<wacky> YES sue i have 
<herbie45> There aren't any disabled people around for me 
    to get into a relationship with. 
<T_J> that is had a relationship with an able bodied 
<Lonewolf> Kaz this is your first meeting-we follow question 
    lines only 
<wacky> Ali first gimp i have been intimate w/ 
<herbie45> However, getting into a relationship does not 
    mean I have the ability to be the caregiver. 
<deadheadf> herbie you are so right....I have had none 
    disabled friends get the strangest looks on there faces 
    when I take about sex.... 
<Lonewolf> my husband has no choice about being caregiver 
<Kaz> T-J which kind ?? Progressive or diffused or 
    localised? 
<Kark> I dated someone for 7yrs who didn't have a 
    disability 
<Kaz> oh sorry first time here 
<Lonewolf> iz ok 
* anny1 crutch is also named herbie 
<Kaz> not too sure what is happening? 
<herbie45> deadheadf, I've met a few nice guys (so they 
    seem) on the net and as soon as they know I have a 
    disability, they run 
<Lonewolf> 5. Are you loved because of who you are inside 
    or because of obligation 
<herbie45> Herbie is the name of my retired racing 
    greyhound, who's also been trained as my service dog. 
<Kark> Kaz Wensday is the only night we follow the list 
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<T_J> Kaz: Got messed up, here...was answering the question, 
    if Iīd been involved with an able bodied or not 
<Lonewolf> sorry herbie no excess chat during meeting 
<herbie45> That's about as much relationship I think I'm 
    gonna get into at this rate, and I'm not that young 
    anymore. 
<Kaz> so whats the subject guys? 
<T_J> I donīt have your dis... 
<Kaz> so whats the list? 
<Lonewolf> relationships 
<Lily> i woudnt trade my quad for any AB in the world, 
    its whats in the heart and mind that counts 
<Kark> Relationships 
<herbie45> Lonewofl, I really am not sure what you mean, 
    explain? HOw am I out of line? 
<Lonewolf> see question I pasted in 
<Lily> i woudnt trade my quad for any AB in the world, 
    its whats in the heart and mind that counts 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, I am discussing relationships 
<deadheadf> I don't know why people love me....but at least 
    I know I'm loved 
<herbie45> Lonewofl, I don't see the question you pasted 
    in. 
<Lonewolf> ok sorry 
<T_J> Lily, ever tried to train in order to get better? 
<Kaz> k relationships ta 
<Lonewolf> 5. Are you loved because of who you are inside 
    or because of obligation 
<herbie45> what type of relationships are you talking about, 
    or are you talking about all relationships 
<Lonewolf> don't understand T_J 
<suze> are we talking about only sexual relationships, or 
    familial and friends also? 
<eve> without being concieted they accept me for who i am 
<Kark> Some of the relationships I had lasted longer due 
    to obligation 
<wacky> I love my lily because she is who she is its 
    that simple 
<Lonewolf> family, friends and mates 
<Lily> :)) 
<T_J> Were asking lily, but I can ask her more about that 
    later. =) 
<eve> i won't let them do it any other way 
<suze> ok, well, i think ppl like me for the person i am 
<In> wacky that is what my hubby says bout me 
<Lily> yup, same here, wacky 
<herbie45> well, the people who I have relationship with 
    mostly love me cause they feel it's their duty, but there 
    are a few who love me truly 
<T_J> Iīm not loved because of of obligation. 
<herbie45> but with that love comes strings too 
<Lonewolf> 6. If you are alone, what do you look for in 
    friends and a mate? 
<Lonewolf> strings can be hard to accept 
<Kaz> its hard to substain a relationship when you have no 
    confidence because of a disability 
<suze> i look for ppl who i enjoy being around for 
    friends 
<herbie45> I am single, I look for honesty, integrity, 
    communication, 
<Kaz> or two 
<herbie45> strings are hard to swallow. 
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<Lonewolf> yes kaz 
<wacky> Love be true shall have no stings for alas 
    pinnochio I am not 
<Kark> People antisap 
<Lonewolf> ?? 
<anny1> lol wacky 
<Kark> sorry I was typing ang slipped 
<T_J> Caring, honesty, all in all I see more to the 
    personality of the girl 
<T_J> + more things too. =) 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<T_J> I mean in thev personality 
<suze> i'm looking for a man who is honest, fun, caring 
<Kaz> I have both disabilities as above which makes it 
    hard to trust someone who may think he loves you or just 
    feel sorry for you 
<Lonewolf> when I talk to some of the younger people they 
    feel they ill never find a mate because od disabilty 
<suze> able b or dis, doesn't matter 
<T_J> About the same interests as I... 
<herbie45> I want to find someone who is truly interested 
    in me as a person. 
<deadheadf> someone who lets me be who I am 
<wacky> sorry sue I am taken 
<T_J> suze: Right 
<suze> lol 
<Lonewolf> well I have no friends 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, I am now 46 and that applies not only 
    to younger people 
<Lily> lol 
<suze> someone who wants to start a family 
<suze> that is important to me 
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<Kaz> Why Lonewolf??? 
<Lonewolf> outside of family and net 
<Lonewolf> they all split when I became disabled 
<Kark> LW HAS MANY FRIENDS 
<herbie45> I want someone to share with, and care about, 
    and be able to admire their qualities 
<Kark> ! 
<Lonewolf> on net yes 
<anny1> lw that is how i felt and then when i stopped 
    looking for mate and decided to date for fun hubby 
    camealong 
<Kaz> is it because youve been hurt too many times by 
    people? 
<eve> adam found the perfect woman in eve 
<herbie45> how about those of us who have hidden 
    disabilities, makes relationships harder because there are 
    more expectations of us 
<wacky> well ...... sue cant help ya 
<Kark> I think everone here would be if they were closer 
<deadheadf> Lonewolf it looks like they were never your 
    friends.. 
<Lonewolf> its because my friends left when I cud no 
    longer do things with them and for them 
<T_J> LW: Not me, I know I will sooner or later (I donīt 
    know what you consider young, but anyway) 
<Kaz> yeah its usually the case 
<suze> herbie, i have a hidden disability and this concerns 
    me 
<Kark> I am losing ability and am facing that to LW 
<Lonewolf> it is hard karen 
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<Lonewolf> I hide from places where Imight see old friends 
<T_J> Too bad Lw 
<herbie45> so people expect more of me and that is harder 
    on relationships. 
<suze> yes, herbie, i am in the exact same position 
<Kark> This is why I fear relationships 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, I don't hide. 
<Lonewolf> 7. Take a good look inside and tell yourself 
    what you see. Has being disbled 
<Lonewolf> changed your outlook on life? 
<wacky> i gotta go back hurts 
<suze> except i haven't been in relationship so do not 
    know how it will go 
<Lonewolf> k bri 
<Lily> k 
<Kark> YES 
<herbie45> I can laugh, cry, think, be creative, etc. etc. 
    etc., is that not enough to begin relationship? 
<Lonewolf> think hard on that one guys 
<Kark> to #7 
<wacky> I am a better person because i am a gimp 
<suze> certainly 
<anny1> you go wacky 
<Lily> yes 
<Lonewolf> how so bri? 
<deadheadf> LW I understand...when I started to use a 
    wheelchair in public sometimes I was afraid to look at 
    people I knew from school...I was afraid they would reject 
    me 
<eve> i was always disabled but i had to learn to love 
    myself before anyone else could love me 
<T_J> Donīt know, donīt remember how it was being able 
    bodied 
<herbie45> being disabled has changed my outlook a lot. I 
    have looked to my inner spirit and found some things out 
    about me I never knew which have helped me tremendously 
<wacky> and I accept who I am and what i am as too who 
    it has influenced me to be 
<T_J> Got my dis when I was one 
<Kaz> Ive thought many times about committing well you know 
    because of my disability and the way it effects 
    relationships and also friendships 
<herbie45> I use a scooter, and people who knew me before 
    I used a cane and scooter don't think differently 
<suze> i appreciate much more my capabilities 
<anny1> being disabled as made me more introspective and 
    sensitive 
<Lily> wacky is very centred 
<herbie45> Kaz, then don't you need to look to yourself 
    first? 
<Kark> I think I am desensitised from it 
<wacky> once I accepted myself ppl found it easier to 
    accept me 
<herbie45> In the process I have found some new creativity 
    in me that I hadn't known was there before 
<suze> I have learned alot about my friends, how they have 
    dealt w/me and how wonderful some of them have been 
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<Kaz> physically others are repulsed by my appearance 
<wacky> I am as I am and I am STILL here 
<Kark> I think I have been thinking to much about this 
    all day 
<suze> i have some very good friends, i am truly blessed 
<herbie45> I know that other people tend to try to change 
    me to their way, but I am not them. 
<Kark> Valentines day stuff everywhere 
<Lonewolf> being disabled has totally changed me 
<wacky> karen it does get hard 
<Lonewolf> e are all more sensitive to others I think 
<herbie45> I am limited by my condition but I am not 
    disabled in many of the things I CAN do. 
<suze> yes, i feel the same way herbie 
<Lonewolf> I do not feel as self assured as I used to 
<Kaz> see i wasnt born like this it was like a cancer 
    eating away at me with no cure 
<Woz> judy yes we are 
<suze> i do consider my life to be very rich 
<Lonewolf> max ho so? 
<herbie45> If you think of your disability as limiting you 
    rather than what CAN you do, or exploring what you could 
    do, then you will be more disabled. 
<Kark> If you knew me I am not a feeling sorry formyself 
    kind of preson 
<Kaz> neither do i suzi 
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<Lonewolf> me either Karen but I do get really angry at 
    times 
<wacky> I may be disabled but I am only handicapped by 
    the conditions of my surroundings 
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<herbie45> I'm always involved in community events, going 
    with my service dog to schools and teaching them, etc. My 
    life does NOT revolve around my disabilities. 
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<Lonewolf> Kaz could you explain your disease to us? 
<T_J> herbie: I agree 
<wacky> slceradema is a harden ing of all organs 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, it's okay to be angry to a point. 
    What I do when I'm really angry is to allow myself to 
    feel that anger for x amount of time, then do something 
    constructive with it. 
<Lonewolf> not possible for me 
<suze> i am so filled w/joy. Tonight my friend's brother 
    came to my house and dug my car out of the snow 
<Kaz> I have what i mentioned to you Parry Rombergs and 
    Schleroderma must of been a dredful person in a past life 
<wacky> skin will look like hard shell 
<suze> i couldn't do that, but he generously offerd to do 
    it for me 
<herbie45> Since I am homebound a lot especially during the 
    winter, I look for ways I can use my creativity. 
<deadheadf> I think that the more you get out and deal 
    with everyday normal people the more you realize that every 
    one is screwed up in one way or another....Its the people 
    who admit to having problems that can deal better with 
    life problems 
<suze> it was such a great kindness and he would not 
    accept money from either 
<Woz> you deeper in to people to see what thay are not 
    what thay look like 
<suze> i accept help from others when needed 
<Lonewolf> yes max 
<herbie45> deadheadf, the people who cannot accept another 
    person's disability are themselves disabled by their 
    ignorance or their lack of knowledge. 
<Lonewolf> great suze 
<Lonewolf> yup 
<Woz> i think you also become more intuative 
<anny1> i agree deadhead 
<wacky> By all and remember I love being slightly...... 
    unique I STAND OUT IN A CROWD so i enjoy it 
<deadheadf> right!!! herbie 
<Lonewolf> I can no longer get out very much and feel 
    very dependent which results in anger 
<Kark> Yes but that is a large amount of the population 
    herb 
* wacky gives judi a magic hug 
<T_J> deafhead: Good point 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, I know that too. So during those 
    times, I have to do something which helps me to feel 
    better about my situation. 
<Lonewolf> my driver is a bit pregnant <g> 
<suze> yes, i know how u feel LW, on monday and tuesday 
    i needed ppl to take me to doctor';s appointments 
<Kaz> Yeah i empathise with you all 
<suze> that is difficult, depending on them 
<Woz> then comes acceptance 
<herbie45> Kark, right, so being disabled involves the 
    majority 
<CindyB> lol 
<CindyB> but getting better 
<suze> now, my car is free and i will be able to take 
    care of myself 
<Kark> Yes LW, and I appologize if tonight mine has been 
    showing 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, a bit? Either she is or she isn't lol 
<Lonewolf> Kaz I understand sclerderma 
<suze> but when i can't, i accept help 
<Lonewolf> but hat is the other one? 
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<suze> Parry Rom?? 
<Lonewolf> she is def pregnant 
<suze> what is that? 
<herbie45> lol 
<Kaz> I have localised effected my whole left side of my 
    body 
<Lonewolf> 8. Describe yourself listing good relationship 
    qualities. 
<Kaz> suze do you have parry romberg i have that also 
<suze> easy, I'm fun, good listener, adventurous, good 
    friend 
<Lonewolf> I'm gnna pick on preg family on this one 
<suze> no, kaz, LW was asking what that was? 
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<Lonewolf> Cindy has good relationship qualities 
<Kaz> eats away at your body and in some cases it eats 
    away at your face 
<herbie45> witty, intelligent, creative, motivated, determined, 
    fun-loving, hardworking, realistic, shall I keep going? 
<Lonewolf> no lo self esteem huh? 
<Kaz> now you can understand why relationships are hard for 
    some hey 
<MsAmazin> hehe..sounds like me :) 
<suze> lol, me too, i'm intelligent, creative, wild streak 
<Woz> lol 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, it was a long process and hard work 
    for me to get where I am. But I am extremely self 
    motivated, that is a big help 
<Lonewolf> I see myself as fat, dull and slow 
<suze> i'm a very positive person, that helps alot, i 
    smile and laugh constantly 
<T_J> Caring, listening (emphatic), intelligent, 
    houmorist...and so on, can continue for a long while... 
<MsAmazin> me too suze :) 
<Kaz> good thing i still have my face though lol 
<herbie45> [21:33] <Lonewolf> 8. Describe yourself listing 
    good relationship qualities. 
<Lonewolf> 9. Describe yourself listing poor relationship 
    qualities. 
<suze> well, i'm chubby, there's extra here to love 
<Lonewolf> true herbie-sorry 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, your description did not follow your 
    quesiton, want to reanswr that one? 
<MsAmazin> I have no poor relationship qualities :) 
<Lonewolf> hummmmm 
<deadheadf> fat.....uh...me too....but 
    ...smart..funny..independent...and a pain in the butt...but 
    sometimes thats good:) 
<Lonewolf> I'm a workaholic? 
<T_J> Hehe, canīt think of any now... 
<Kaz> loyal 
<Kaz> giving 
<herbie45> stubborn, bullheaded, bossy 
<Kaz> caring 
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<Kaz> honest 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<herbie45> good ones are I'm a leader, committed to my 
    work, 
<Woz> judi i am waiting as is herbie 
<Lonewolf> I am very honest 
<suze> lack of experience 
<herbie45> Woz, huh? 
<T_J> More positive things about me, honest, generous... 
<Lonewolf> yes I'm generous loving and caring 
<Woz> better 
<deadheadf> I'm blunt....demanding...and I swear too much 
<Kaz> pragmatic 
<suze> i'm demanding too 
<Lonewolf> On #8 I think a lot of us have fears of 
    relationships 
<suze> and i swear too much sometimes too 
<herbie45> deadheadf, lol, I'm blunt too, and I'm 
    opinionated, however I do agree to disagree. 
<T_J> If I promise something Iīll keep it 
<Lonewolf> me too T_J 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, fears is acceptable, after all dating 
    has changed, even in the past five years. 
<Kaz> mtoo 
<Lonewolf> my biggest fear 
<Lonewolf> what if my hubby dies before me 
<herbie45> lonewolf, yes, that is a realistic fear. 
<Kaz> always rejection 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<suze> fear i may never find the right person for me 
<Kaz> fear of the unknown 
<herbie45> I have fears with finances 
<deadheadf> my biggest fear is that I will die without 
    telling everyone I love that I love them very much 
<Kaz> oh yeah money 
<herbie45> fear comes with things that are more out of our 
    control, so we need to find , if possible, things that 
    ARE in our control 
<Kaz> how much longer can i work?? Mmm 
<herbie45> deadheadf, I had that fear but I took care of 
    it. 
<deadheadf> I'm working on it 
<Lonewolf> 10. What do each of you really want in each of 
    the three categories? 
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<herbie45> Lonewolf, woudl you mind stating those three 
    categories are? 
<T_J> But is so many things beyond our control, I donīt 
    believe in that... 
<Lonewolf> friends first 
<T_J> Wasnīt it family? 
<T_J> first 
<Kaz> contentment 
<Lonewolf> could be 
<suze> yes, what r three categories 
<herbie45> TJ, finding things that are in our control helps 
    to counterbalance all the things that are out of our 
    control, and helps us to feel in control of something in 
    our lives. 
<Lonewolf> friends, family and mates 
<suze> o, i'm happy with all but i don't have mate yet 
<Kaz> health lonewolf 
<Lonewolf> very intuitive herbie 
<haa> gotta go, see you all later. bye 
<suze> that's the only thing missing in my life 
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<herbie45> Friends, honesty. Family, closeness. Mates, I want 
    one. 
<T_J> I believe you can have an influence in most things 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<deadheadf> I want true friends....ones to stand by and 
    ones that stand by me 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, again, it took me a long time, meaning 
    a few years to get to that point. 
<Lonewolf> My internet work has filled a void inmy life 
<Lonewolf> oh yes carrie 
<Kaz> me too 
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<Lonewolf> well it is late and a lot has been covered 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, here where the snow flies and the ice 
    is slick, etc. the internet has helped to keep in contact 
    with people we would not have access to otherwise 
<Lonewolf> yes it does 
<herbie45> are we done now? 
<Lonewolf> does anyone have anything to add? 
<herbie45> Lonewolf, I'm just getting started, lol 
<MsAmazin> good meeting :) 
<herbie45> I think that each of us.... 
<Lonewolf> thank you 
<herbie45> no matter how disabled.... 
<Woz> hugs all 
<Kaz> its helped me to reach people who have a disability 
    like me 
<herbie45> can find things in our owon life somehow... 
<suze> i just feel that it is important to find the 
    positives in your life 
<herbie45> to help ourselves.....even inwardly 
<deadheadf> group hug???? 
<Lonewolf> big group hug 
<MsAmazin> *hug* 
<Woz> yea 
<herbie45> uh, I don't do group hugs, I'm in too much 
    pain 
<Lonewolf> ?me hugs all 
<suze> ((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) 
<T_J> Thereīs a lot to add but that would take very long, 
    the most important have been said, I think 
* deadheadf bbbbbiiiiiigggggg hhhhhuuuuuggggg 
<herbie45> Even cyber hugs hurt. 
<T_J> *hug* 
<Kaz> hope to catch you again lone wolf 
<Lonewolf> anyone need to comment on last week's goals 
    topic? 
<suze> bye everyone 
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<Lonewolf> you too Kaz 
<herbie45> what was last weeks's goals topic? I wasn't 
    here. 
<Lonewolf> setting goals for ourselves 
<Kaz> neither me 
<T_J> Neither me 
<T_J> Ok 
<herbie45> oh I've done that for a long time. 
<Kaz> oh k 
<deadheadf> med time bye 
<Woz> k 
<herbie45> Some days I can only have the goal to enjoy my 
    space. 
<Woz> re hugs later 
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<Lonewolf> well if that's all goodnight all 
<herbie45> but I set my goals on what I know I can do 
<T_J> I alrady set my goals. =) 
<herbie45> goodnite Lonewolf. 
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<Lonewolf> great T_J 
<T_J> Some of them anyway. 
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Jan 13 20:46:28 1999