*** LOG OPENED: Wed Dec 10 18:00:01 1997
---
Participants:
  HandiBot (disabled@lawgiver.megacity.org)
  CincyKid
  ChanServ
  Jo
  Countrybo
  kb9kyy (kb9kyy@indy.net)
  turbokev
  Mooooooo (dse@pacific.net)
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<Mooooooo> Ok, i'll start 
<kb9kyy> AAH! 
<Jo> I;'ve got a problems lately of tipping to the left 
    all the time. Ferret says he's gonna get me a wedge to 
    straighten me out. 
<Mooooooo> tonights topic is on beating the winter blues 
<Countrybo> cool! 
<Mooooooo> Anyone else here get winter depression? 
<Countrybo> I do 
<Jo> Moooooo is winter that cold stuff we are having here 
    right now? 
<kb9kyy> nope, I just freeze 
<kb9kyy> LOL 
<Countrybo> I get snow bound 
<Mooooooo> what do you do for it CB? 
<Jo> We get icebound for a few days down here and it is 
    depressing. 
<Countrybo> last winter longest streatch was 4 weeks 
<Countrybo> without gettin out 
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<Countrybo> I write 
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<Countrybo> I irc 
<Mooooooo> Hi Carly 
<Countrybo> I build model airplanes 
<HelloKit> :o( sorry 
<Countrybo> I raise two kids lol 
<Mooooooo> So you just work your way through it? 
<HelloKit> I see you've all started w/o me... heh 
<Mooooooo> yep :o) 
<Countrybo> most impoprtant thing is having curtains open so 
    I can see outside 
<kb9kyy> we tried to stop Daniel, but he insisted we 
    didn't need you 
<HelloKit> lol you don't need me 
<Countrybo> I feed squirrels 
<kb9kyy> :-) 
<kb9kyy> I feed the birds 
<Countrybo> what else is there? 
<Countrybo> birds too 
<CincyKid> I feed myself 
<Countrybo> lol 
<kb9kyy> lol 
<Mooooooo> I guess if you have a lot of hobbies, it helps 
<HelloKit> lol 
<kb9kyy> jinx 
<Countrybo> I do too too much 
<Jo> I feed the birds and watch them out the sliding 
    glass doors, and rock squirrels. 
<Mooooooo> being in computers its not that easy 
<Mooooooo> i started taking medication in April for it 
<Countrybo> well to tell the truth I learned braille 
    transcription last winter 
<Countrybo> the winter before took a non fiction writing 
    course 
<Jo> Moooooo I can teach you how to knit, crochet, 
    embroider, and read by candle light when the ice storms 
    put the power out. 
<kb9kyy> I gotta get to bed...I have to play Christmas 
    music in front of the whole school at 7:30 tomorrow 
    morning...:-( 
<Countrybo> the winter before took a programming course 
<Mooooooo> nite brad 
<Countrybo> The trick is to keep your mind active I think 
<CincyKid> good luck Kb9 
<Jo> Countrybo does your power go off? 
<Mooooooo> wow, you stay pretty active 
<Countrybo> yuip 
<Countrybo> was out 3 days last winter 
<Countrybo> but we got wood stove 
<Countrybo> and gas stove 
<Countrybo> and lanterns 
* HelloKit is trying to get into the flow of conversation 
    :o) 
<Countrybo> and battery powered radio 
<Countrybo> countryfolks can survive lol 
<HelloKit> What have we talked about so far? 
<Mooooooo> very true 
<Jo> How to cope with winter blues by countrybo 
<kb9kyy> I can keep my equipment running for about a day 
    with my generator, and another hour with just the UPS 
    battery...so I'm not worried about the power 
<kb9kyy> here in the city, the power rarely goes out 
<kb9kyy> so do we 
<kb9kyy> woodstoves are cool! 
<kb9kyy> l8r all 
<kb9kyy> http://members.tripod.com/~gjkd/ 
<kb9kyy> visit and sign guestbook 
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<Mooooooo> no matter how down I am, going out in the 
    woods helps 
<Mooooooo> just started carly 
* Countrybo says i am done lol 
<Countrybo> NEXT 
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<Mooooooo> hi nate 
<nate> hay everone 
<Mooooooo> what about you Jo? 
* Countrybo wonders do people in california and tx get 
    winter blues? I mean gee no snow means freedom all year! 
<Jo> I knit, crochet, embroider, bake, and do lots of 
    stuff to help different charities. 
<Jo> I tend to forget my own problems by helping others. 
<Countrybo> cool jo 
<Mooooooo> no snow but very cold 
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<Mooooooo> ket :o) 
<nate> how cold moo? 
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<Jo> Verrrrrry cold at times here and we get ice storms 
    that close the place down. 
<HelloKit> Hi Ket :o) 
<Mooooooo> dropped down to 20 lastnight 
<Mooooooo> hi Judi 
<keteri> hi mooo and kit 
<Jo> Worst is when the power goes off and I can't watch 
    tv or get any radio 
<nate> ok 
<judi> hi all 
<keteri> hi judi 
<Countrybo> get a battery powered radio 
<Jo> The power outages can be depressing all by themselves. 
<Jo> battery power won't pull in anything out here. 
<Countrybo> get a radio light a lantern and read a good 
    book 
<Countrybo> hook radio to tv antenna 
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<Countrybo> and you'll pull in stuff world wide lol 
<Jo> I';ve got 6 kerosene lanterns, and lots of candles 
    and we don't have tv antenna, got cable. 
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<judi> Sorry, I was late, what are we talking about? 
<Countrybo> jerry rig radio to cable even better! 
<Mooooooo> beating the winter blues 
<Countrybo> or a long wire 
<Jo> Ok I'll get ferret to do that next time. 
* Countrybo is electronics tech lol 
<Countrybo> lotsa ways jo 
<Jo> Now how do I put ice skates or skis on my chair? 
<Countrybo> np 
* HelloKit takes over... :o) 
<Countrybo> take 4 legged chair 
<HelloKit> Everyone can get depressed during the winter. Do 
    you think having a disability contributes to it? 
<Countrybo> YES 
<keteri> yes 
<Countrybo> causes it! 
<Jo> Yes because we have problems regular people don't 
    have. 
<judi> Definately 
<Countrybo> if ya cant get out ya get depressed 
<Jo> cabin fever 
<nate> if i stay insife i get dirpressed 
<judi> For instance, last night my grandaughter had a 
    Christmas play and it was raining. My chair got wet, I 
    got wet and I don't tolerate wet weather well so today I 
    have a sore throat,etc 
<Countrybo> yup 
<Countrybo> bummer 
<judi> What do you guys do about rain and chairs? 
<Jo> I found that opening the window shades and sitting in 
    the sun a little while every day it is out helps the 
    depression and vitamin C 
* Countrybo dcc's judi a space suit? 
<HelloKit> lol 
<judi> lol 
<HelloKit> I don't take my chair out much so I don't 
    know. 
* Countrybo mostly stays outa the rain lol 
<Jo> Yeah we trid every umbrella in creation and I still 
    get soaked too. 
<Countrybo> if i had a garage hmmm 
<judi> It rains in Ky all winter or snows 
<Countrybo> it snows in mich and rains and ice and mess 
<nate> it gets relly cold here 
<judi> same here 
<Jo> cold makes everything hurt more too. 
<judi> I need snow tires 
<judi> amen. Jo 
<Countrybo> my problem is I cn get outside on electric 
    cart in upto 4 inches of snow lol problem is I cant get 
    into truck unless I got bare pavement 
<Mooooooo> Judi, i fyou can afford it, get a Gortex rain 
    suit 
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<Countrybo> and I go bare foot 
<Jo> Why don't they make studded tires for wheelchairs. 
<HelloKit> Hmm... good question. 
<Mooooooo> hello ray 
* Countrybo thinks all wheel chair users should have a 
    amigo in winter 
<Ray1> Hi, Mooooooo. 
<judi> I have a Rascal 
<Jo> Yeah but amigos get hurt trying to push through the 
    snow and over the ice. 
<Countrybo> that'll work! lol 
<Countrybo> lol jo 
<judi> thanks, Mooooo 
<Jo> I got a Rascal but it don't get good traction on 
    ice and snow. 
<judi> Mine either 
<Countrybo> mine niether they need all terrain tires on 
    them and twice the power! 
<Jo> Oh amigo is a chair. Didn't click in W. Tex. 
<judi> I converted mine to a power chair 
<Countrybo> lol jo 
<Countrybo> well jo friends help too! lol 
<Countrybo> like they shovel a path1 
<HelloKit> For those of you who do experience winter 
    depression, does it seem to be for no reason or can you 
    usually identify a source? 
<Mooooooo> judi, a GorTex rain suit will keep you dry even 
    if you're sitting in a puddle of water 
* Countrybo broke amigo deck plowin snow with his amigo 
<Jo> I got a beautiful ramp to the street, but no 
    sidewalks in most of town so getting out in winter is 
    rough. 
<judi> great 
<Jo> People pile snow all over the ramped areas and you 
    can't get into them. 
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<Countrybo> people need educatin! 
<Mooooooo> My depression is from a chemical imbalance but 
    can be kicked into high gear by a mean comment 
    (intentional or not) 
<Jo> Yeah city snow plow crews especially. 
<Countrybo> wow mooo 
<Jo> Mooooooo does sunshine help you? 
* Countrybo thinks if ya keep the room sunny its better 
<judi> That's true, Mooooooo 
<HelloKit> Ooooooohh... Jo that reminds me of my town... I 
    hate it when they plow all the snow into the disabled 
    parking spaces! 
<Mooooooo> not really 
<Mooooooo> but being in the woods does 
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<Jo> Yeah since when are disabled parking places the snow 
    plows depository. 
<Jo> They do it in the Malls north of here all the time. 
    Makes Xmas shopping the pits. 
<Countrybo> I know a guy covers windows to keep warm and 
    lives like in a cave lol he gets really depressed and I 
    keep my windows clear so sun comes in and I feel better 
<Countrybo> but get antsy to get out 
<judi> There are 2 types of depression, one is a chemical 
    imbalance, the other is just a reactional type thing that 
    everyone gets now and then 
<Mooooooo> I have them both 
<HelloKit> At my high school they were always plowing snow 
    into the spot where the w/c bus lets ppl off too. 
<Jo> Yeah, I have chemical imbalances so bad they kick me 
    into heart attacks. Not fun. 
<Countrybo> a call to the dept of public works can end 
    that 
<Mooooooo> but medication has taken a lot away 
<Mooooooo> not all, but most 
<Mooooooo> xanax comes in handy on those days 
<Jo> Moooooo medication helps but doesn't quite get it all. 
    2 x 4 over head from ferret face really gets me going. 
<judi> It can help a lot. I take medication for it too. 
<HelloKit> lol 
<Jo> brb 
<Mooooooo> lol 
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<Mooooooo> the only bad part was that i had to double it 
<Mooooooo> hey jody :o) 
<Mooooooo> about 4 months ago 
<Jody> hi all... sorry I'm late. 
<Mooooooo> np :o) 
<Jody> hi Judi.... got your notes but I haven't had time 
    to respond. 
<judi> I battle depression every day Moooooo, so I can 
    sympathize with what you have said 
<judi> Hi Jody 
<Jody> are we discussing depression? 
<HelloKit> Are the holidays extra-stressful when you have a 
    disability? 
<Countrybo> hmmmm 
<Jody> yes they are.... 
<judi> Fatigue is such a problem 
<Mooooooo> they're not stressful for me anymore 
<Countrybo> I guess I just hate all the commotion the 
    worse 
<Mooooooo> i dont participate in holidays much anymore 
<Jody> fatigue is a problem like Judi said... and then 
    there is the other stuff that is hard to do.. 
<Jo> holidays are extra stressful cause either allergies or 
    health prevent getting in on a lot of things. 
<judi> It adds to the stress 
<Jo> Take short naps during the day if you can. Especially 
    when busy schedule around it. 
* Countrybo thinks it depeneds on sex and disability and 
    whose cookin lol 
<judi> Its hard for others to understand your limitations 
<Jo> Yeah and some of the gifts you get #$$%##@# 
<Jody> no can do.... my mother doesn't understand. And I'm 
    HER rock during the holidays.... does anyone else have that 
    problem? 
<HelloKit> The hardest part for me is shopping for the 
    people who normally help me shop. How do you buy someone's 
    gift right in front of them without them noticing? 
<Countrybo> lol thats a toughy 
<Countrybo> mail order? 
<judi> Sure is 
<Jo> Try to get someone else to take you. Or put them in 
    coffee shop and get store people to help. 
<Countrybo> I call into jcpenny lol 
<HelloKit> Mail order would work except everyone wants 
    credit cards these days... and I don't have one :o/ 
<Countrybo> ya 
<Jody> Carly, how about asking someone to help you one day 
    and shop for the others and then shop for that first 
    person when you are with someone else 
<nate> use your parents kit 
<Countrybo> send check 
<HelloKit> And writing checks is difficult for me as well. 
<Countrybo> bummer 
<Jo> I've found the stores are very helpful with putting 
    care takers in their coffee lounge and taking you around 
    if you ask. 
<Jo> New cash registers are automatic in lots of stores. 
<Jo> They write checks for you. 
<HelloKit> Well, there's only one person willing to take me 
    out... and he's the one I still need to buy for. 
<Countrybo> hmmm 
<judi> Have any of you tried to get a chair in a store 
    in a mall? 
<Countrybo> try giving money? 
<Jody> or ask your mom to pick up the gift. This means 
    thinking ahea about you want to buy but it might be 
    easier. 
<Jo> Get him to take you to a store you call ahead to. 
    Arrange for them to help you. K. Mart, Walmart and others 
    are really good at that, Target too. 
<Countrybo> well i have in kmart lol closets thing we got 
    to a mall 
<Jody> that was supposed to be ahead 
<HelloKit> I don't ask my parents for things anymore. 
    They've always treated me like a big inconvenience and I'm 
    sick of it. I refuse to deal with that. 
<Jo> Even Sears and JCPenny will help if you call ahead. 
<Jody> even department stores try to be accomodating to the 
    disabled. 
<Mooooooo> the local stores are that way too 
<HelloKit> My whole family is like that... example: I'm 
    home w/ my sisters and need to use the restroom - they'll 
    sit there and argue over whose 'turn' it is to help me 
    while I pee my pants. 
<Jo> I had the attic wired this year as ferrets gift. He 
    can go up in the attic and not get killed now. And 
    didn't have to leave home to get it or pay for it. 
<Mooooooo> that sucks Carly 
<judi> I don't even try a mall. K-mart and Walmart are 
    pretty good, except I get so nervous in crowds which 
    equals stress which equals depression 
<Jo> Open your mouth and tell them off. That is abuse. 
<Jody> you need an aide you can depend on Carly. 
<Countrybo> family needs a reality check!!!! 
<HelloKit> heh, sorry if I sound a lil bitter tonight... 
    had a lousy day. 
<HelloKit> I have Chris, Jody... he's very dependable. 
<judi> Carly, are you still thinking of moving out? 
<Jo> HelloKit is too nice. Gotta get big mouth like Jo-Ann 
    and learn to tell people off when they need it. 
<HelloKit> Yes I am, and every day at home I look forward 
    to it even more. 
<HelloKit> Oh believe me, I have a huge mouth. 
<Jo> Do you use it? 
<judi> Good luck, sounds like you need a change 
<HelloKit> My mother has threatened to kick me out over 
    and over since I was about 15. 
<HelloKit> For my mouth... 
<Jo> Believe me my pants would not get peed and my family 
    would be turned in for abuse. 
<Countrybo> i think its more to it than that carly . when 
    a person gets a certain age they wanna leave home and 
    nature makes em fight with parents and all wether they 
    have a disability or not. I think having a disability 
    compounds that built in time clock. 
<Jo> abuse is abuse and not to be tolerated by elderly, 
    disabled, women and men in bad marriages. Thats what laws 
    are for. 
<Jody> Carly, so has mine. But every time I actually make 
    a move to leave she asks me to stay. I had a lot of 
    problems with my family too when I was your age. 
<Jo> Carly how old are you? 
<HelloKit> Well, my family and I have very different 
    opinions on lots of things. For instance I say I have a 
    right to eat, dress, shower and it's not my fault I need 
    help. They say I have to earn their help. 
<HelloKit> I'm 18. 
<Countrybo> yup i thought so lol 
<Countrybo> i wanted out at 18 too lol 
<Jo> We must expect help, but must ask and earn respect 
    from people also. 
<Jody> hmmmm...... earn their help? I agree. Your family 
    needs a reality check. 
<Countrybo> hey they love you and should help freely 
<Jo> I learned that by doing what I can to help gets 
    people to help me a lot quicker with what I can't do. 
* HelloKit picked up her HUD paperwork yesterday... 
<judi> Agree, Jo, but I think its a little different when 
    you are dependent 
<nate> kit you shoud get chirs to help you 
<Countrybo> you cant earn their help 
<Jo> I hope you will have another care taker besides Chris 
    and not overload him. 
<HelloKit> He does, but he can't always be right there. 
<Countrybo> when you move out carly who will help then? 
<judi> You've been dependent on them all your life, right? 
<Jo> HelloKit is in for a shock on independent living. 
<HelloKit> Chris will be coming with me, Countrybo. 
<Jody> Jo is right Carly. Someone to take some of the 
    work so that you and he can concentrate on a little 
    fun.... ;) 
<Countrybo> cool 
<Countrybo> then go carly go! 
<Countrybo> its time to spread your wings 
<judi> Maybe. they need a break too, Carly. 
<Jo> Even ferret face needs to get out of his cage once 
    in a while after a stressful day at work he can't take 
    me sometimes. 
<HelloKit> Well the nice thing is that Chris actually 
    enjoys helping me with a lot of things. He thinks it's 
    romantic to feed me :o) 
* Countrybo thinks alot of parents would kill their kids 
    if they didnt go to college lol 
<judi> My hubby is the same 
<Jody> my problem with my family is that they are TOO 
    helpful. 
<judi> Now, but what about later? 
<Countrybo> wow jody 
<Jo> Yeah but they still need a break. Being a caretaker 
    is very stressful. I had a hubby died and know. 
<Mooooooo> even the most in love people need a break 
<HelloKit> And if I get help setting up I can go on my 
    own for a few hours. 
<Countrybo> yup mooo is right 
* Countrybo is alone most of the day 
<Countrybo> that helps 
<Jody> that can be just as annoying Countrybo. They don't 
    leave me be sometimes. 
<Countrybo> has dangerouse times lol but helps 
<Jo> HelloKit sometimes they need more than that. A day 
    off fishing with the boys or just to get out alone. 
    Everyone needs space once in a while. 
<judi> How old are you Jody? 
<HelloKit> Yeah I know... Chris doesn't believe me tho. Our 
    plans right now are to save up and start our own business 
    (and do it right the first time, unlike my dad). If we 
    do well eventually we'll be able to afford someone else. 
<Jody> 32 
<HelloKit> My options financially are pretty limited right 
    now. 
<Jo> You don't get any kind of help from govt. 
<Jo> What state are you in? 
<judi> Sopunds like a good plan, Carly. Every dream has to 
    have a beginning. 
<HelloKit> Chris is listed as my attendant with SS so that 
    he doesn't count against me. 
<Jody> Carly... how old is Chris? 
<judi> Jody, tell them you need your space... 
<HelloKit> He'll be 22 in Feb. 
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<Jody> oh. I do but they fuss. More after surgery then 
    anything else. 
<Countrybo> well bed time night all. good luck carly 
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<nate> wb moo 
<HelloKit> What helps make the holidays go by smoother for 
    you? 
<Jo> HelloKit, I probably will make you angry but Love 
    don't pay the rent, food, medical bills or extras. You got 
    a lot of obstacles to overcome besides you disablility. 
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<Jo> Holidays go smoother if I try to pace myself and not 
    overdo, trying to please others. 
<judi> Family taking over plans 
<nate> my g/f 
<Jody> if someone else would make the christmas cookies.... 
<HelloKit> I know, Jo, believe me I know. heh... if it 
    was just my disability I'd have been out of here a year 
    ago :o) 
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<Mooooooo> deedee :o) 
<Jo> Heck I am on my third hubby now. Go for it. 
    Everyone should try at least once. 
<judi> I would like to conserve my energy so that I can 
    just enjoy being with everyone. 
<deedee> Hi Mooooooo 
<judi> hi deedee 
<Jo> judi, I don't want them to take over it all. Then I 
    get stuck doing things I really don't want too and get 
    more upset. 
<Jo> hi deedee 
<deedee> hi there judi! 
* HelloKit sighs. 
<deedee> and Jo 
<judi> I can't be 'the one in charge now' 
<Jo> don't have to be in charge but make sure you have 
    input. 
<HelloKit> I'm really sorry I changed the subject like 
    that, guys. I'm having a really rotten week. 
<Jody> Actually... having everything planned. Like buying 
    enough ingredients in advance or deciding on who's getting 
    what before the 24th 
<judi> ok, Carly 
<Jo> NOKIDDING would have never guessed it. 
<nate> its ok carly 
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<Mooooooo> heya sheree :o) 
<Xova> hey 
<Jo> I'm not in charge, too scatter brained, but I do 
    have input and suggestions that can help. 
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<judi> What depresses me most is that it seems like some 
    of my grandkids are starting to ignore 'Grandma' in 
    prefernce to their other non-disabled grandparents 
* HelloKit thinks she has just demonstrated a perfect 
    example of winter stress :o) 
<Jody> I know this sounds simple, but meditation can help. 
    Listening to soft music and doing breathing exercises. 
<judi> And, I can't get to church very often 
<Jo> Make the church come to you. I do. 
<Jody> Judi, doesn't your church have one or two people 
    you can depend on to pick you up? 
<Jo> They took my money for enough years let them come to 
    me now. 
<judi> That sounds great Jody, but ever tried to meditate 
    with large doses of cortisone putting your brain into high 
    gear? 
<HelloKit> lol true Jo 
<deedee> ¶;-] 
<Mooooooo> there is an online sunday service on NewNet 
<HelloKit> Really? 
<Mooooooo> yep 
<deedee> Hmm ive moved into a house without access...a 
    ramp....and Ive been inside now for going on 4 weeks..talk 
    about feeling like a recluse 
<judi> My husband takes me, its the sitting still for so 
    long and getting out in the bad weather 
<Mooooooo> im gonna add a link tonight 
<Xova> well have to go my mom needs the puter 
<Xova> night all 
<Jo> So have peole from church come to your house for 
    prayer and home worship. Less chance of catching stuff that 
    way to. And watch TV church services. 
<Jody> my brain is in high gear without the cortizone. 
    that's why I do it... to slow myself down a bit 
<Mooooooo> bye sheree :o) 
<Xova> night moooooo hugs 
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<Mooooooo> /:o) 
<Jo> Watch TV on Sundays and have them come in middle of 
    week to space it out and not tire you. 
<Jody> And when I can't meditate... a good glass of wine 
    does the trick. 
<Jody> ;)))) 
<judi> Sounds stupid, but I'm Catholic, we're brainwashed to 
    think our body has to be in that building. Yes, they have 
    a radio mass and my daughter brings me communion, still 
    miss it. 
<Jo> A good glass of wine can also put some of us in 
    the hospital with our meds. 
<Jo> judi I am a Catholic. 
<judi> Wine is a nono on my med list too 
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<judi> Brainwashed? 
<Jo> There are lay apostalate workers that will come to 
    you and priests come to house and all sorts of help from 
    Knights of Columbus etc. That excuse don't work with me. 
<Jo> hi Ohio 
<Jody> mine too. but my doctor told me that I can has 
    one if taken at the right time 
<OhiO> hi Jo 
<judi> hi Ohio 
<OhiO> hi judi 
<Jo> If you ask for your church to help you they will. 
<HelloKit> Well, I'm coming down with a cold and not 
    feeling very well. Besides that, I'm embarrassed with my 
    little outburst. I think I'll take off for now. 
<Jody> don't worry about it Carly. You're entitled. 
<Mooooooo> ok carly 
<judi> How many priests do you have? We have 3 but our 
    parish is so big, they rarely go to anyone's house. 
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* HelloKit waves. 
<Jody> an outburst is good for the psche. 
<judi> night, Carly 
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* HelloKit hugs Mooooooo. 
<Jody> night. 
<Mooooooo> /:o) 
<HelloKit> Bye all... 
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*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Dec 10 19:00:07 1997