*** LOG OPENED: Wed Dec  9 18:01:53 1998
---
Participants:
  disabled
  Mooooooo (azdse@uswest.net)
  ChanServ (nanook@eskimo.com)
  Lily
  Lonewolf
  LittleMan
  atrpilot
  suze
  Kark
---
<Lonewolf> ok Holiday Blues 
<Lily> yes 
<Lonewolf> 1.Do you experience more depressive thoughts 
    during the holiday season? 
<suze> i'm afraid i don't have them 
<Lily> im strung out already 
<Lily> i do 
<Kim^^> i do too 
<suze> ok, talk about it 
<Lily> too much happening 
<Wakemon> not this year 
<zelda> miss my family seems harder during the holidays 
<suze> yes, this year i got an early start so i don't 
    feel so stressed 
<Lily> too many things that i have to do, rather than 
    want to do 
<suze> I've spaced out my activities and started early 
<zelda> i did shopping by internet so didnt have to brasve 
    the malls this year 
<suze> can u reduce your activities 
<zelda> that was a big help 
<Lily> yes, suze, im trying to 
<suze> my friend and i decided some things we will do 
    this year, others next year 
<zelda> lily can you bring it back down to what you want 
    to do 
<Kim^^> talking doesn't help what i feel i want my mama 
    back and kids still live with dad soi i don't think avout 
    it and pretend happy:) 
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<judi> ok 
<suze> kim, do u have ppl to spend holidays with? 
<zelda> Kim i understand miss my father and grandmother 
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<suze> r there compromises that can be made in seeing 
    kids? 
<Lily> but, zelda, than family and frinds wud be 
    disappointed 
<Kark> I kinda am but know I might be worried about 
    venting 
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<zelda> i mean try to comprimise Lily 
<zelda> and i bet they would not be as disapointed as 
    ling as you spent time wiht them and were not frazzled 
    and tired from 
<zelda> trying to do everything 
<suze> sometimes we must put ourselves before others 
<Lily> i try to spread things out 
<suze> especially where your health is concerned 
<Lonewolf> 2. What do you do to decrease your depression? 
<Kim^^> my children do not want to see me and i'm scared 
    to see them:( 
<Lily> but am exhausted by boxing day 
<zelda> and lily you will be happier if you do what you 
    want and your family will pick up o this and enjoy the 
    holiday more 
<Lonewolf> Kim why are you scared to see them 
<Lily> i think u right, zelda 
<Kim^^> i don't think about it is how i hold it down 
<suze> yes, give yourself permission to control what happens 
    to you 
<suze> take charge 
<Kim^^> cuz the boy tried to slit my throat when he lived 
    here and still says he will:)( 
<Lonewolf> your son? 
<Lily> kim, thats awful 
<Kim^^> yes' 
<suze> r u depressed kim? do you take anything for 
    depression? 
<zelda> I focus on the things I enjoy about the holiday 
    and rember my family in a happy way and not dwell on 
    them being gone 
<Lonewolf> so you just repress it? 
<Kim^^> but he's my boy:) 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<Kim^^> yes repress am on antidepressant yes suze 
<woz> how old 
<suze> ok, good 
<Kim^^> 18 bnow 
<Kim^^> 15 when he tried to kill me 
<Lonewolf> I get very depressed because I can't do like I 
    used to 
<Lonewolf> he lives with his father? 
<zelda> yes Lone that is frustrating 
<suze> i know how difficult that is LW, I try to be 
    thankful for what i do have 
<suze> what i can still do 
<zelda> i agree suze 
<suze> and remember that there are others who r much worse 
    off than i 
<Lonewolf> this year is really hard because we are tighter 
    on money and drew names with kids and spouses 
<Kim^^> mny son? don't know where he is right now father 
    chaSed ghinm off at gunpoint? 
<zelda> I get sooo tired at times 
<woz> old memories die hard 
<Lonewolf> oh Kim so sorry 
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<zelda> but lone rember the reason for holiday 
<Kim^^> :) 
<Lily> ahhhhh 
<Lonewolf> yes but it is the first year I have not had 
    big present for each one 
<suze> i find that there are lots of things ppl can do 
    that cost nothing or very little money 
<suze> u just have to be inventive 
<suze> there all alive and that is a great present indeed 
<Lonewolf> suze I have been trying to make things and it 
    has really hurt me 
<Kim^^> yes i got both of my kids portable cd players 
    with marboro miles 
<suze> and so are u, and that is joyful for all of them 
<zelda> one thing i started giving my stepmother and she 
    loves it is one full day where I do what ever she would 
    like with her 
<Lonewolf> neat Kim 
<Lonewolf> that's good zelda 
<suze> that's great zelda 
<Kim^^> neaT but they won'tr think so judi:( 
<zelda> that could be spending the weekend wiht her helping 
    her clean house, going swimming wiht her cooking her 
    favorite meal 
<Lonewolf> this IS depressing me 
<suze> i am taking three of my closest friends to the 
    theatre for three different plays, all of which i got for 
    free for doing volunteer work for these organizations 
<Lily> my hubby gave me a cleaning lady one year 
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<Kark> yes 
<Lonewolf> my biggest talent is lying in bed 
<Lily> my hubby gave me a cleaning lady one year 
<suze> omg lily, that' 
<zelda> then lone what about story time wiht them sharing 
    memories 
<suze> s best gift ever, lol 
<Kim^^> myt sister brings in a cleaning crew too lily:) 
<Lily> lol, yup 
<suze> u know what i gave my niece last year 
<zelda> lisenting to music with them 
<Kim^^> ? 
<suze> didn't cost a penny 
<Kim^^> ? 
<Lily> babysitting gift certificates 
<Lily> ?? 
<suze> i wrote out on little pieces of paper all the 
    things about her that r special to me 
<Lonewolf> u guys are all mobile 
<suze> so she could read one for each day of the year 
<zelda> how neat suze 
<suze> she has kept them all!!!!! 
<suze> u could do that on the couch 
<Lonewolf> what means do you use to raise spirits? 
<Kim^^> that is nice sauze i might actually try that with 
    my daughter thanks:) 
<Lily> i called the cdn mint and otdered coin proof sets 
<woz> judi you give the gift of love it is the most 
    precious of all 
<Kark> I help decorate the tree at work and standing made 
    my hips and leg hurt 
<Kark> it made me feel bad that I can keep up anymore 
<suze> i play christmas music at home 
<Lonewolf> thanks max 
<zelda> ill tel you i take prozac has helped my hips 
    immensxly 
<suze> i decorate my home and really enjoy it 
<suze> me too zelda, prozac rules 
<Lily> me too, suze 
<Kark> also the pressures of shopping hurts too 
<Sue> I try remember the don't get too hungry, angry, 
    lonely, tired and practice as much as I can 
<Lonewolf> personally I feel frantic right now 
<Kim^^> i don't try tp lift my spirits just don't go 
    around anyone so they don'tr habe to dea; 
<Kim^^> why judi? 
<woz> judi explain 
<Lonewolf> well today for instance 
<zelda> i have not decorated yet been too busy wiht work 
    but going to start this weekend and do a little at a 
    time 
<Wakemon> am i lagging? 
<Lonewolf> I had a list of thins to do a mile ling 
<suze> i ask for help when i need it 
<Lonewolf> I tried to sit at sewing machine and started 
    blacking out 
<Lily> 7 sec. 
<Wakemon> thanx lily 
<zelda> lone you need to take small tasks and not get 
    overwhelmed wiht a big list and do what you can 
<suze> last year, i had tree trimming party and my friends 
    came over and literally put my tree and all the 
    decorations up w/me 
<Lonewolf> made it back here and pretended I had just come 
    back to channel to chat' 
<woz> judi you try to carry the world on your sholders 
<Lonewolf> I know max 
<suze> this year, my mom came over and helped me get 
    started w/decorations and i was able to finish by myself 
<woz> you help ppl in chat 
<Lonewolf> didn't get work done 
<suze> when u need help, ask for it 
<Lonewolf> lol 
<Lily> no, not that work, judi, but different 
<zelda> cool suze i do that every year wiht tree and 
    everyone loves it 
<Lonewolf> everybody in my family is either busy or 
    pregnant ruight now 
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<woz> you give so much of your self to others you have 
    nothing to give your self 
<zelda> i cant get tree up by myself they have a grand 
    ole time 
<atrpilot> ph.no. 
<suze> we need to stop being so selfless and ask others 
    for help 
<Lonewolf> ok les go on 
<Lily> then, do less, judi, accept it 
<woz> let someone cary part of the load 
<Lonewolf> 3. Do you experience suicidal thoughts? 
<suze> does your family know how u feel or are you 
    keeping that from them? 
<zelda> people like to help we just have to be willing to 
    accept help 
<suze> YES< zelda 
<Lonewolf> part of family is here 
<suze> absolutely 
<zelda> as my grandmother use to tell me quit being so 
    darn independent 
<suze> do they know? 
<Lily> true 
<Lonewolf> and she better not try to help right no 
<Lonewolf> Cindy? 
<CindyB> I'm here 
<suze> o i c 
<zelda> hahahahhaha lone right 
<Lonewolf> explain how busy everyobne is 
<CindyB> Husband and daughter are always out of town, sons 
    are out of town 
<suze> is it possible to hire a high schooler to help out 
    for awhile? 
<CindyB> she doesn't want me around, afraid I'll barf on 
    her 
<Lonewolf> she's pregnant 
<CindyB> lol 
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<CindyB> But she really had no one 
<suze> bet alot of kids whould like to earn some money 
    for christmas 
<Lonewolf> maybe suze 
<Lily> brb 
<zelda> im heading to shower check yall out later 
<Lonewolf> lets go on to next question 
<zelda> night all 
<suze> talk to someone at local high scholl 
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<Lonewolf> do I ned to repost question 
<Lonewolf> 3. Do you experience suicidal thoughts? 
<suze> anyone? 
<Lonewolf> anyone? 
<Driveshaf> nope 
<Wakemon> nope 
<Kark> no but I do wonder whats the use of making much 
    of an effort 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<suze> if anyone does, please don't be afraid to tell 
    someone and get help 
<Mooooooo> i did 
<Lonewolf> what did you do Daniel? 
<Mooooooo> i got help 
<Mooooooo> got meds 
<Mooooooo> got better 
<Lonewolf> to allieviate the situation 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<Mooooooo> now i gots my Laura :o) 
<suze> i suggest that when ppl feel depressed they seek 
    help and try not to be too isolated from others 
<atrpilot> ph.no. 
<Lonewolf> suze you can't always do that 
<suze> want it charlie 
<suze> it can be on phone too 
<atrpilot> no 
<suze> no?? 
<Lonewolf> I hate to talk because it upsets Cindy 
<Lonewolf> but I have thought planned even 
<suze> no, u need to say how u feel 
<atrpilot> kidding 
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<wacky> I hate holidays 
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<Lonewolf> would like to leave country during christmas 
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<CindyB> You can tell them, I'll go get a drin and go 
    potty 
<Lonewolf> ok 
<Lily> back 
<Lonewolf> get very depressed and can't talk to anyone suze 
<Lily> me too, judi:) 
<Lonewolf> black hole 
<suze> i would suggest you see someone and take 
    antidepressants 
<Lonewolf> I'm sure Daniel knows what I am talking about 
<suze> i take anti-d and it has changed my whole life 
<Lonewolf> I do 
<suze> i've been there too LW 
<Kark> When I get depressed I might start to but then I 
    shy off 
<suze> believe me, i was really bad off 
<Lily> holidaysvery stressful 
<Kark> Specially around the holidays 
<woz> i will be glad to discuss depression wit anyone at 
    any time i have had personal experience 
<Lonewolf> For me Christmas reminds me of everything bad 
<suze> is there not one person you can really talk to 
    about this who you trust 
<wacky> its abunch of lies holiday u see ppl u never see 
    otherwise say I love you and u barely know then, tell em 
    things a wonderful even if they suck it a bit of an act 
<Kark> around the holidays people to busy to listen 
<Lonewolf> wonderfully stated brian 
<Lily> i agree, wacky 
<suze> wow, i feel very differently 
<Lonewolf> suze whe I get to the talk stage I talk to 
    husband 
<suze> it seems to me that ppl are more friendly, cheery 
<suze> that's been my experience 
<suze> am i the only one? 
<Camille3> you no ppl xmas isn't about uu 
<wacky> too cheery if ask me 
<suze> lol 
<Lonewolf> true Cam 
<suze> no such thing 
<Mooooooo> i gotta run 
<Mooooooo> bye ya'll 
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<woz> i have alos seen mu daughter comatos 
<suze> I'm cheery all the time 
<Lily> suze, what city is this????????? 
<suze> u must hate me 
<suze> chicago 
<Lonewolf> max sos sorry 
<suze> but, i guess i'm talking about my interaction w/my 
    friends 
<woz> do not be 
<wacky> suze send me a bit of u for christmas 
<Lily> no, just hasnt been my expeience 
<Camille3> no suze is same here in st louis 
<suze> i'm just so grateful for my health and what i have 
    and what i look forward to 
<suze> that i don't let anyone get me down 
<Sue> bye ya'll - gotta go 
<Lonewolf> good attitude 
<suze> i am excited every day 
<woz> i have been a conservat for 2 ppl who have had 
    depression 
<suze> i wasn't always like this though 
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<Kark> I am going to say good night 
<suze> u can look at things in so many different ways 
<wacky> NITE Karen 
<Lonewolf> 4. Does the preparation for Christmas contribute 
    to your depression? 
<CindyB> I'm back, but have to go..great seeing you all. 
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<Lily> yes, is hectic 
<suze> i'm sorry, maybe i'm bringing ppl down w/my cheer 
<suze> don't leave on account of me 
<wacky> not depression just a feeling of isolation 
<Lonewolf> no suze good for us 
<Kark> Thanks wacky, night night. And I will say YES to 
    #$ 
<Kark> 4 
<suze> i told someone this story the other night and they 
    laughed 
<woz> as a conservator i also have some knowledge about 
    the law 
<Lonewolf> ok I'll tell on Lily 
<Lily> lol, what i do now??????? 
<Lonewolf> she has social obligations because of husband's 
    job 
<Lonewolf> is hard for her 
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<Lonewolf> adds strsss 
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<atrpilot> suze you pep ppl up need more like you 
<Lily> well, i just say no, i cant entertain 
<suze> one christmas many years ago when i was in college, 
    broke and living in a tiny studio someone gave me a small 
    christmas tree 
<suze> i put it on top of a table and decorated it 
<suze> that little tree made me soo happy in that dingy 
    place, i kept it up til april 
<Lily> but stress comes when i then feel guilty 
<suze> every night i would light it up and just enjoy it 
<Lonewolf> 5. Are your family get togethers stressful? 
<wacky> YES 
<Lonewolf> suze we could use a dose of you all around 
<Lily> lol, yes 
<suze> thx 
<suze> seriously, i had that tree up til april, and it 
    really put me in a good mood!!!!!! 
<Lily> sprinkle suze on eggnog 
<Lonewolf> great 
<suze> yes, family get-togethers can be stressful 
<Lonewolf> our family has 2 type get togethers-great and 
    awful 
<suze> i try to plan my arrival with enough time for me 
    to rest 
<wacky> feel like a w/c user in a house full of 
    stairs.... wiat that is what happens every time: no wonder! 
<Lily> lol 
<suze> i often lay down at some point for an hour or so 
    between events since we go to two different homes on 
    christmas 
<Lonewolf> everyone comes to my house because of that wacky 
<Lily> suze, i cant lay down, am running events 
<suze> i pace myself 
<suze> sure u can 
<suze> let family take over 
<Lonewolf> do any of you have the 
    one person has to be in a rotten mood thing 
<suze> that's what i would do 
<Lily> yup 
<suze> not really 
<suze> haven't exp that 
<wacky> yea well I tried that IT didnt work remember how 
    pissed I was at thanksgiving 
<suze> lily, let the others take over 
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<Lonewolf> hubby and I bet on which one it will be each 
    holiday 
<Lily> o, dont go back in there, wacky 
<suze> wow, that happens all the time? 
<suze> one person in bad mood? 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<wacky> oops I peeved a bot I forgot 
<Lonewolf> high strung 
<suze> i would steer clear of them, i guess 
<Lonewolf> 6. If you had to chose, who would you spend 
    Christmas with? 
<suze> or overwhelm them w/my cheer 
<Lonewolf> lol 
<Lily> hmmmmmmmmm 
<suze> to the point where they either join in or leave, 
    lol 
<Lily> lol 
<Lonewolf> I give them the I'm still your mother look 
<suze> my family 
<wacky> Someone with an accessible home! 
<suze> i don't see them so much that i'm sick of them 
<Lonewolf> ahh 
<Lily> my friend 
<Lily> s 
<suze> i love holidays 
<Lonewolf> I would spend Christmas with my dad 
<Camille3> my kids 
<wacky> I hate depending on others for things I can 
    normally do my self 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<wacky> but in reality... one more chirstmas with my dad 
<Lonewolf> 7. Do you push yourself to the extreme during 
    the holidays? 
<Lonewolf> me too brian 
<Lily> i like having good frinds at table 
<suze> not me 
<wacky> YES 
<Lonewolf> I miss him 
<Lily> yes 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<Camille3> a little 
<suze> i don't do anything i don't feel capable of or 
    want to do 
<Lily> i get strung out 
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<wacky> so do I judi 
<Lily> is very stressful 
<Lily> yes, i miss mom and dad 
<Lonewolf> 8. Do you incorporate rest and proper diet into 
    your schedule? 
<suze> yes 
<wacky> Rest?? 
<Lily> i try to 
<suze> completely 
<suze> i do 
<wacky> wish I culd 
<Lily> hard to rest tho 
<Lonewolf> I think we have found suze's secret 
<suze> lol 
<Lily> what??? 
<suze> yes, i do all those things 
<Lonewolf> she takes care of herself so she can enjoy 
<suze> absolutely 
<Lily> hmmmmmmmm 
<suze> and nobody wants to see me get sick or stressed 
    out either 
<Lonewolf> diet is hard though 
<wacky> but for me holidays are a drag race, but the 
    onlthing I am dragging is my body up and down stairs 
<Lonewolf> all those goodies 
<suze> so, although it may seem selfish that i don't 
    overtax myself, everyone wins in the end 
<Lonewolf> yes 
<suze> i don't feel i have to eat everything that day 
<suze> i take lots of food home w/me 
<suze> and savor for the next week 
<Lonewolf> everybody leaves the food here 
<suze> then u don't have to worry about it 
<Lonewolf> Cindy left 6 pies at THanksgiving 
<Lonewolf> 6 
<suze> OMG 
<suze> wow 
<Lonewolf> felt obligated to eat as much as possible 
<suze> pie for breakfast, lunch and dinner 
<Lonewolf> exactly 
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<suze> that's why we have freezers 
<Lonewolf> lol 
<suze> freeze and eat at leisure 
<Lonewolf> well any closing thoughts? 
<woz> hugs all 
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<Lonewolf> hugs max 
<suze> i hope anyone who is feeling badly has others to 
    talk to 
<suze> and pls ask for help for yourself 
<suze> merry christmas 
<suze> enjoy 
<Lonewolf> wakemomyou haven't said a word 
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<Lonewolf> thanks suze 
<Lonewolf> Kim? 
<Lonewolf> Lily? 
<Lily> night 
<Lonewolf> nite sis 
<Lily> no:) 
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*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Dec  9 19:20:10 1998