*** LOG OPENED: Wed Dec  3 18:09:25 1997
---
Participants:
  HandiBot (disabled@lawgiver.megacity.org)
  HelloKit (carlym@u.washington.edu)
  Emmert
  ket
  Red_
  beetlebug
  sus-away
  Joel-
  Mooooooo (dse@pacific.net)
  ChanServ
  Dancer
---
<HelloKit> logging is on 
<&Mooooooo> i is lagged 
<Mooooooo> start the log? 
<HelloKit> just did 
<HelloKit> Well everyone, I am unprepared again... but will 
    do my best :o) 
<HelloKit> ping me 
<Red_> 1 sec 
<HelloKit> Thanks :o) 
<HelloKit> Are we all ready to start? 
<Mooooooo> yep :o) 
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<HelloKit> Hello shayna :o) 
<shayna> hi 
<HelloKit> First question... 
<beetlebug> hi ya shayna 
<shayna> what's up? 
<HelloKit> How many live independently already? 
<ket> me 
<beetlebug> shanya where are you from 
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<Mooooooo> me does 
<Mooooooo> kinda 
<Red_> me 
<shayna> Missouri, how about you? 
<beetlebug> hey gal 
<beetlebug> Pa. 
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<Mooooooo> i live with family again 
<Mooooooo> but i rent 
<Mooooooo> 2 rooms 
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<judi> Hi everyone 
<beetlebug> how's the weather out there 
<Mooooooo> judi :o) 
<beetlebug> hey,judi 
<HelloKit> Hi judi... current question is: How many live 
    independently already? 
<judi> With husband? 
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<HelloKit> That counts, I would think. :o) 
<gb_gal> hi 
<ket> lol 
<judi> I need day help sometimes 
<ket> hi gb 
<HelloKit> For those who do live independently, were there 
    any issues that had to be solved (i.e. attendant care)? 
<judi> I doubt I could live alone 
<beetlebug> i might as well, I do every thing any way 
<judi> Big problem for us 
<beetlebug> why, that,judi 
<Red_> dressing myself was an issue at one point 
<judi> Sometimes I can't even get outta bed, I have a 
    potty chair but have a tendency to faint before I get up 
    when I'm in bad shape so....... 
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<ket> hi andie...... 
<andie1> hi ket 
<LordNick> hello everybody 
<judi> Plus there's the matter of food, drink, etc 
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<LordNick> does anyone here know any latin? 
<Mooooooo> e plurbus unim 
<Red_> why would you faint judi? 
<beetlebug> don't feel bad i bet your keeping alot of 
    people employed 
<ket> lol moooo 
<HelloKit> Hello andie1, Jody and LordNick :o) current 
    question is: For those who do live independently, were 
    there any issues that had to be solved first? 
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<judi> Red, how did you solve the dressing thing 
<Jody> sorry I'm late.... evening all. 
<HelloKit> Mimi! 
<Mimi> hi :o) 
<Jody> Hey Mims!!! 
<HelloKit> Mimi, current question is: For those who do live 
    independently, were there any issues that had to be solved 
    first? 
<LordNick> really...does anybody know any latin? 
<LordNick> enough to translate stuff 
<Jody> used to.... 
<Mimi> oh wow...totally forgot meeting night 
<Red_> I discovered sticks, tools, when I was in the 
    hospital 
<gb_gal> hi dancer 
<ket> hi mimi 
<Red_> tools to put on socks 
<Mimi> hi ket :o) 
<LordNick> 'In manus tuas, commendo spiritum meum.' 
<Jody> I can't afford to live independently just yet..... 
    but there would be issues to solve. I know that much... 
<judi> I need one of those, feet are far away 
<HelloKit> If you haven't already answered this, how were 
    these issues solved? 
<LordNick> might be 'In your hands, I commend my spirit.' 
<Dancer> I'm back, did I miss much? 
<Mooooooo> Jo left, but she said she had all the water 
    shutoffs made reachable 
<gb_gal> hi dancer 
<Dancer> Hello. 
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<beetlebug> i think everyone could live independently with 
    in reason with the right tools 
<judi> I haven't solved them, even considered a nursing 
    home a few times but family won't hear of it 
<Red_> how about a live-in attendant? 
<judi> Tools don't help with things like blood pressure 
    drops, vertigo, etc 
<Dancer> I want to move away from home too. 
<judi> money 
<Mooooooo> my friend Darlene had a live in attendant for 
    her dad 
<judi> How did she pay for it 
<Red_> well that does have a way of getting in the way 
<HelloKit> There is state aid to help pay for attendant's, 
    judi. 
<HelloKit> er... attendants 
<Mooooooo> free rent for her and her kid and a small wage 
<Dancer> That is also my problem, money. 
<judi> But, my husband has a good job, just not good 
    enough to afford the rates they charge 
<beetlebug> i think it would be neat to a disabled person 
    to teach people not to throw money at these problems 
<Jody> some insurance companies will pay for attendants. my 
    mom worked for a home-care organization. 
<judi> It cost about $8-9/hr for a sitter 
<Dancer> they don't have group homes around here for 
    physically-only challenged people. 
<Mooooooo> wow 
<judi> That was gonna be our next step last go round, 
    home health, but you still have to pay for your own 
    sitter, ins doesn't cover it 
<beetlebug> i mean some people think it takes $100.00 for 
    a 50 cent solution 
<judi> I don't follow you beetle 
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<beetlebug> well if they would ask the person their helping 
    that persons point of veiw 
<Jody> all the home aides that my mother's company sent 
    out were paid for by insurance... maybe you need an aide 
    that is certified or something... 
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<judi> By the way, any females here know an easy way to 
    get a bra on when you can't get reach behind you at all 
<andie1> web ket... 
<andie1> wb 
<Mimi> wb ket :o) 
<Mooooooo> wb :o) 
<beetlebug> and just maybe that person has a solution to 
    the big problem 
<Jody> front-close bras 
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<ket> thanks 
<HelloKit> I know someone who has a live-in attendant/friend 
    who works in exchange for room-and-board... and she has 
    another attendant come in a few times a day to help out, 
    her Medicaid pays for that one. 
<judi> Aides can't stay all day though 
<Mimi> close it in front and then twist it around you 
    until the clasp's in back :o) 
<Dancer> current question? 
<judi> Carly, that is a possibility, we have an empty 
    upstairs 
<HelloKit> judi: In regard to bras... how about sports bras 
    that you pull over your head? 
<Jody> some college students majoring in medicine or nursing 
    look for live-in situations.... 
<judi> I'm fixing to embarras myself but, well, I'm a wee 
    bit large in that area so comfort does not always come in 
    handy styles 
<HelloKit> heh 
<judi> That's a good idea Jody 
<HelloKit> Is anyone considering making a move into 
    independent living in the not-too-distant future? 
<Jody> judi: try front-close bras.... Warner's makes a nice 
    one that fits larger gals like us 
* HelloKit raises her hand. 
<Dancer> I'm with you Judy. 
<Jody> ME!!!! 
<judi> ok, thanks 
<Dancer> Me. Hopefully in spring. 
<Jody> brb 
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* Mooooooo is out on his own in Dallas 
<ket> hi tybee 
*** sus-away is now known as Susan
<tybee> hiya, ket and all 
<HelloKit> What kinds of issues are you facing when you 
    move? 
<gb_gal> hi tybee 
<andie1> wb susan 
<Susan> hey -- Mooooooo -- you ar ein Dallas now? 
<Mooooooo> not yet 
<Dancer> Does anyone have ideas on smooth transitions, 
    people wise? I.e. how to leave without making parents 
    uncomfortable and new people uncomfortable? 
<Mooooooo> just having nothing and nobody 
<Dancer> This will be my first venture 
<Mooooooo> its very scary 
<gb_gal> good luck dancer 
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<HelloKit> Dancer... you could be like me and hang around 
    so long that they can't wait for you to leave ;o) 
<beetlebug> not to mention the guilty 
<judi> Its hard for parents to let go anyway, but I'm 
    sure its magnified with a diabled child 
<Dancer> your talking to someone that can't do a lot for 
    herself. 
<Dancer> No kidding. 
<judi> Are you going to have help, Dancer 
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<Dancer> Yes, probably an adult foster care situation. 
<HelloKit> Hi steve :o) Current question is: What kinds of 
    issues are you facing when you move? 
<steveH> hello 
<judi> Oh, have you met the foster family yet? 
<Red_> getting people to help with moving! 
<gb_gal> hi steve 
*** JodyAway is now known as Jody
<andie1> wb jody 
<gb_gal> wb jody 
<steveH> hi gb_gal 
<Jody> thank you.... 
<Mimi> I have to go guys...have an early plane in the 
    morning 
<gb_gal> how are ya steve?? 
<gb_gal> have fun in vegas mimi!!!! 
<HelloKit> I worry about how to handle being left alone... 
    I know my bf isn't going to be able to stay home with 
    me all the time. 
<steveH> doing pretty good, you? 
<judi> where ya going mimi 
<beetlebug> see ya 
<Jody> ooohhh..... have a great time. Will we see you here 
    this week? 
<ket> mimi have a great time!!!! 
* HelloKit hugs Mimi!!! 
<Mimi> to Vegas, but I'll be back online in a couple days 
    :o) 
* Jody hugs the stuffing out of Mimi 
<Mimi> thanks everyone! 
<judi> have fun 
* Mimi just hugs everyone :o) 
<Susan> night Mimi 
<ket> bye mimi 
<Mimi> bye!! 
<gb_gal> bye mimi 
<Jody> Have a great time!!! 
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<judi> Carly, have you ever stayed alone at all? 
<Dancer> not met anyone yet. Still working on talking to 
    people about it. (read parents) 
<HelloKit> Yes, but not for long periods of time. 
<beetlebug> oh yes! 
<judi> Understand Dancer 
<Jody> judi: acknowledge private chat, please 
<HelloKit> It's like, if I'm alone and I have to go to 
    the bathroom, I'm up the creek...... 
<judi> See, that's my problem, hubby can't be here all the 
    time 
<judi> How do I do that Jody 
<gb_gal> steve...did you get my private message? 
<steveH> yes, how do you send one? 
<HelloKit> Jody: judi is using the java chat, she can't do 
    DCC chat 
<Jody> it should ask you if you want to acknowleged... do 
    you see a little button on the bottom of your screen? 
<Jody> oh... okay then 
<gb_gal> steve...are you using java chat? 
<Dancer> I'm 20. Am I the youngest here? 
* HelloKit is 18. 
<tybee> :) 
<steveH> it is a java script, but not java chat 
<gb_gal> nope..20 also 
<Red_> yikes! 
* Mooooooo is old 
<ket> lol 
<gb_gal> steve...did my message come up in a little box on 
    the bottom of the screen/ 
* Red_ is old also 
<beetlebug> how old is old 
<steveH> steve is old 
<Mooooooo> gb, steve is in Java chat 
<steveH> no 
<gb_gal> steve...then double click on my name 
<Mooooooo> SteveH - ~java@ppp-5.ts-1.stl.idt.net - #Disabled 
    Channel User 
<Mooooooo> next question carly :o) 
* HelloKit can't think of one... :o/ 
<ket> lol 
<Mooooooo> ok 
<Mooooooo> i have one 
<HelloKit> k go for it 
<Mooooooo> How do you all plan to get around when you 
    move out. transportation? 
* HelloKit can't think, period. 
<ket> :) 
<Mooooooo> think 'comma' then 
<HelloKit> lol 
<ket> that is a problem 
<ket> rides 
<Mooooooo> How do you all plan to get around when you 
    move out. transportation. 
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<Mooooooo> official 
<ket> that dont show 
<Red_> I drive 
<Jody> I drive too 
<Dancer> dial a ride. If they go on until then. 
<Red_> with my left foot 
<Dancer> Lucky. 
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<Jody> you okay, judi? 
<Mooooooo> how about a hands-only car 
<HelloKit> We have a junker Pontiac that will get us 
    around town, and if we have to go out of town we trade 
    with my mom for her van. 
<Red_> yes, I feel lucky 
* HelloKit doesn't drive yet. 
<judi> I am such a computer geek 
<HelloKit> But my bf does. 
<Dancer> My startle reflex is too bad. 
<beetlebug> same here 
<Jody> it gets easier after awhile... 
<Mooooooo> my friend Ahalam had a car with hand controlls 
    only since she had no legs 
<Jody> hope that info helps you.... 
<judi> hope so 
<judi> it will, thanks 
<HelloKit> Hey... Sierra has a new computer program out 
    called Driver's Ed. It comes with a steering wheel and 
    simulates driver's training. 
<judi> I can't drive anymore 
<HelloKit> It's only $40 too. 
<Mooooooo> cool :o) 
* HelloKit wants it for X-mas... hint, hint 
<HelloKit> hehe... just kidding 
<ket> lol 
<Jody> lol.... nice try 
<Mooooooo> my mom needs one called 'back seat driver' 
<Jody> LOL 
<HelloKit> lol 
<judi> lol 
<Mooooooo> practice screaming into the microphone 
<Jody> I have a request for information.... 
<judi> what 
<Mooooooo> ok 
<HelloKit> With that I could teach myself to drive... then 
    when I can afford a van it won't be so hard to learn to 
    drive it. 
<Jody> where do I find a catalog that supplies things that 
    can be used to make living in your house easier... 
<Mooooooo> carly has catalogs 
<Jody> such as.... door handles, gadgets that open things, 
    etc 
<Jody> you do Carly? 
<Red_> I have to go people, I'm glad I could be at a 
    meeting 
<HelloKit> Mooooooo is referring to an inside joke... sort 
    of. But I could probably find you some. 
<Red_> goodnight 
<Mooooooo> i would try a web search for Assistive 
    Technology 
<beetlebug> see ya red 
<gb_gal> bye red!! 
<Jody> I know they're out there... I just don't know where 
    to look 
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<judi> Jody, Sears has a catalogue called, 'For Your 
    Special Needs' 
<beetlebug> you might look under automation 
<Jody> thanks.... I'll call them 
<judi> I have had several different ones, I'll look up the 
    names and addresses for you if you want them 
<Jody> I mostly need hardware type stuff. Door handles... 
    like that 
<Jody> sure, judi, that would be great. my address is 
    jdejan@pipeline.com 
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<judi> The Arthritis Today magazine always has ads for them 
    in the back 
<Mooooooo> hi david 
<Jody> really? I'll have to look. I have that mag. 
<Kainx> dan! goodness it's been a long time :) 
<judi> I'll write tomorrow 
<Kainx> how have ya been ? 
<Jody> thanks! 
<beetlebug> a catalog called Health house might some thing 
    for you 
<Jody> do you have RA, judi? 
<judi> I've gotten some goodies out of Carol Wright or 
    Harriet Carter cat 
<judi> yes 
<Jody> so do I.... 
<judi> plus a few other itises 
<beetlebug> you can get real good ideas from those 
<Jody> :) I just have the one itis. It's enough 
<judi> no kiddin!!!! 
<Jody> thank you, beetlebug. I look it up 
<judi> Where can you get Health House 
<Dancer> current question? 
<beetlebug> look in cataloglink.com 
<Jody> brb 
<judi> thanks 
* HelloKit has one more question... 
<beetlebug> shoot 
<Mooooooo> okay carly 
<HelloKit> Is there any advice you can give to someone 
    looking to become independent? 
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<Mooooooo> move to another state 
<Mooooooo> assume a new identty 
<Mooooooo> denise :o) 
<judi> Gets lots of info first 
<Amazin1> Hi all :) 
<judi> hi denise 
<tybee> hiya, Amaz 
<HelloKit> Hi Amazin1 :o) Current question is: Is there any 
    advice you can give to someone looking to become 
    independent? 
<beetlebug> don't let anyone discourage you ,remember their 
    not in your shoes 
<steveH> What is the situation? 
<judi> Daniel, are you trying to give your mom a heart 
    attack? 
<Amazin1> it takes lots of determination and persistence 
<Mooooooo> lol 
<beetlebug> tell me about it 
<judi> I think each one of us has our own needs, I would 
    think those needs who have to be attended to and the best 
    weapon against failure would be 'having all your bases 
    covered' 
<beetlebug> but that's what makes us stronger than most 
    folks 
<Jody> I just need the money to move out.... 
<judi> they call it 'stubborn' down my way beetle 
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<Amazin1> :) judi 
<beetlebug> i hear you 
<judi> Jody, that was Penny's not Sears 
<Jody> jc penny.... good. got one near by. 
<Jody> thankks 
<Jody> my 'stubborness' when it comes to indenpendence 
    drives my family nuts 
<tybee> :) 
<judi> Money is the problem we all run into. Add the 
    words disabled to anything and the price jumps sky high 
<HelloKit> All, I hate to leave so suddenly, but I'm 
    feeling rather ill... 
<HelloKit> I'll see you all later. 
<Jody> actually.... even iif I wasn't disabled I couldn't 
    afford rent. 
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<Mooooooo> bye Carly :o) 
<Jody> hope she's okay 
<judi> me too 
<Mooooooo> Ok, party time YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! 
<Mooooooo> she will be okay :o) 
<beetlebug> well i got mixed messages when i was growingup 
    some people stessed independence and other shoed pity 
<Mooooooo> pity sucks 
<beetlebug> excuse me showed 
<Mooooooo> go for independance 
<beetlebug> tell me ,that make me boil 
<Dancer> a... same here, bug. 
<judi> My husband is a lot older than I am and he 
    constantly worries about dying before me and how I will 
    survive. I gotta go too, Chicago Hope is coming on 
<Mooooooo> see ya Judi :o) 
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<Jody> enjoy it... goodnight Judi 
<beetlebug> see ya 
<Jody> my family just feels that if they are around, I 
    should feel comfortable asking them for help. 
<Jody> I usually insist on doing it myself, even if it is 
    more difficult. 
<Mooooooo> Jody, if you need help, ask for it. but if you 
    can do it on your own, even hard as it is, do it 
<beetlebug> well family is one thing and then there are 
    other people 
<Jody> I don't have a problem that way... I can hide my 
    disability. Which leads to other problems, of course. 
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<Mooooooo> what is your disability? 
<gb_gal> hi phil 
<Jody> are you asking me, Dan? 
<Amazin1> Moo, you type faster than I do :) 
<Mooooooo> yep 
<Mooooooo> hehe 
<Jody> I thought you knew.... I have a bad case of RA. 
<beetlebug> hy phil 
<PHIL> HELLO BEETLEBUG. HOW ARE YOU? 
<Jody> mostly knees, but my hands are getting bad now too. 
    So's my neck and back. 
<Jody> ping me 
<beetlebug> well,I'm going to have to cut out guys 
<Mooooooo> see ya beetle 
<Jody> thanks for the info beetlebug. 
<Jody> night 
<PHIL> seeya 
<beetlebug> no problemo 
<Mooooooo> sorry, Jody. I read Judi :o) 
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<gb_gal> hi phil! 
<Dancer> current question? 
<Jody> she's got RA too 
<Jody> I think we're finished Dancer.... 
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Dec  3 19:11:39 1997