*** LOG OPENED: Wed Nov 19 18:00:14 1997
---
Participants:
  HandiBot
  Jason
  Lao-tzu
  Buy
  Susan
  phoenyxx
  beetlebug
  judi
  Jo
  haa
  Mimi (mimi@lino.com)
  ChanServ (nanook@eskimo.com)
  HelloKit (carlym@u.washington.edu)
---
*** HelloKit has some news to share as soon as we're ready to
   start.
<judi> ready here
<Susan> ready here
<beetlebug> be right back
<Lao-tzu> Hey Susan...er...
<Lao-tzu>  Deb, most everybody here knows me by Han
<phoenyxx> standing by (think I know already though :-( )
<haa> okay
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<buy> bug. I am not sure which oner U did not get
<Susan> thanks han
<judi> Carly, the news?
<HelloKit> As some of you know, an unexpected event this weekend
    has caused a change in plans for tonight's meeting...
*** Jo has joined #Disabled
<judi> hello Jo
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<Lao-tzu> hi Jo
<Jason> hello all
<buy> Jo I am no longer itchie
<haa> hello jo
<judi> helllo Jason
<Jo> Hillo Mimi,Mooooooo, bettlebug, buy, Jason, haa, jani,
    judi, laotzu, phoenyzz, susan.
<Jason> did the meeting start yet
<Lao-tzu> Carly, unexpected events are the highlights of my life,
    ... lets have it
<Jo> sorry phoenyxx fumble fingers
<HelloKit> We have lost a close friend and a very popular face
    here on #Disabled.  This last Saturday at 10:10 PM, Keith
    Hodgdon (aka DopeHat) died of complications due to muscular
    dystrophy.
<Jason>  hey mooo
<Jason> it was a loss for almost all here i think
*** Mimi looks sad
<Mooooooo> yes, it was
<phoenyxx> hard to beleive- he never let on that he had gotten
    that much worse.
<Lao-tzu> Oh my, so sorry to hear that.
<Jason> even though i only had a chance to talk with him a few
    times i know that i will miss him
<phoenyxx> me too Jason.
**** Jason gives mimi a huge hug
<judi> I can't seem to get it off my mind, even though I didn't
    know him that well
<haa> it is time to cry now
<beetlebug> i think we're all sorry to see him go
*** Jason is now known as Jason
<HelloKit> I'm sorry if I get too quiet or bore you all too
    much tonight, but I'm just not in much shape to conduct
    a normal meeting.  So instead, we're just going to use
    this as a sort of memorial service for Keith.
<Susan> thanks carly
<phoenyxx> that's ok carly.
<Mooooooo> im so mixed with emotions.  i'm going to miss him
    so much, but I cant not be happy ovet the fact that he
    is out of the pain he was in
<judi> Wasn't something being organized that we could do as a
    group?
<phoenyxx> but this is one time I might be quiet- I feel bad but
    I never know what to say when things like this happen.
<Susan> er just found out on monday night
<Mooooooo> if anyone would like an address to send a card to his
    family, I have it
<HelloKit> I didn't know what to say either, Simon.  I still
    don't.
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<Jo> Mooooooo please send address.\
<Mimi> thanks Jason
<Mooooooo> Pam and Ken Hodgdon
<Mooooooo> 13249 East 46th Street South
<Mooooooo> Tulsa OK 74134
<judi> Does anyone else have muscular dystrophy?
<Mooooooo> I think its important to know how much we loved him
<phoenyxx> it seems surreal- like you don't believe the first few
    times you hear about it.  <Mooooooo> Judi, several other
    people here do
<Mimi> Keith was a great friend, one of the best.  I'll miss him
    so much.
<phoenyxx> I try to get something to his family as soon as
    possible.
<Mimi> so much  :o(
<Susan> i found out from talking to Keith's mother
<Jason> i still can't believe it
<buy> Bug did u leave?
<Susan> it was a really hard conversation we had but she was so
    sweet and caring and so glad that i had called so that we
    would know
<judi> How are his parents holding up?
<Mimi> that poor lady  :o(
<Mooooooo> i wrote his family today just to tell them about the
    good times we all had
<Mimi> I can't even imagine what it must be like to lost a son
<Jo> Thakyou.
<Susan> ok i guess.  before i could even ask where keith had been
    she blurted out that he had died on Saturday night
<phoenyxx> pardon that folks,
<Jason> i still look for him to pop in the room and spread a
cheerful thought among us
<judi> who was that?
<Susan> i was shocked -- we talked for a while -- she cried a
    little and it was awkward but i'm glad that we found out
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<Susan> i've barely thought of another thing since i talked to
    her
<Jo> I'll get a note and card off tomorrow from here.
<Mooooooo> thanks Jo :o)
<Jo> Mooooooo how old was Keith.
<Jason> 23
<Susan> 23
<Mimi> I need a while to organize my thoughts...I have a 400 page
    log from the channel and I'm going to read it and include
    some of our best moments in my letter to his family
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<Mimi> hi Denise
<Jo> That is nice Mimi
<judi> I have thought a lot today about the illnesses that bring
us all together and give us a bond, no matter what our ages,
races, beliefs, etc.
<Mooooooo> that would be wonderful :o)
<HelloKit> I'm sorry you guys... I just don't know what else to
say.  This is the third friend I have lost this year.
<Jason> he was so young
<Amazin1> Hi all
<Mimi> *hugs* Carly
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<Jo> Hi Amazin1
<Jason> hello amazin1
<judi> Sorry Carly, I've lost a Dad and a mother-in-law this year
<Jason> i'm really sorry to hear that hellokit
<Mooooooo> hi Denise :o)
<Amazin1> Hi, Moooooo
<Amazin1> how are ya? :)
<Jason> i guess i lucky i haven't lost anyone yet this year
<Mimi> I have a story to tell about Keith if you all
    want to hear it
<Jo> Yeah we all have things that bring us together. But
    these things show we are just like everyone else. We go
    through birth, little Alex, pians of life and death, Keith
    just like other people.
<Susan> please do mimi
<Mimi> :o)
<phoenyxx> go Mimi
<judi> You always think that death gets easier to accept
    as you get older but it doesn't
<Jason> yes please mimi
<Mooooooo> i do
<Jo> please mimi
<Jason> death is never easy to handle
<judi> me too Mimi
<Mimi> One day Keith and Daniel and I were all in the
    channel chatting, and Keith suddenly disappeared for over 30
    minutes...
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<Mimi> Daniel and I continued talking, and I was telling
    him all about how I was going through this depression and
    how hard it was, etc.
<Mimi> Then Keith came back, and when we asked him where
    he was
<Mimi> he said that he had tilted his head back too far
    and got stuck that way, and had to wait for someone to
    come find him...
<Mimi> I was aghast at the thought :o(
<Mimi> However,
<Mimi> Keith immediately messged me and wanted to know if
    I was ok and let me know that he was there if I needed
    to talk
<phoenyxx> wow
<Mimi> I was so shamed that I was complaining about my
    nothing problems and Keith was right there for me when he
    was going throuhg so much
<Mimi> Thats just the kind of person he was
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<Susan> too true
<Mimi> And he never said a word of complaint about that,
    did he Daniel?
<haa> i am crying again
<Mooooooo> nope, never did
<judi> Not to be ashamed Mimi, we all have those times.
    Sounds like he was just a special angel
<Jason> i know what you mean
<Mimi> he was, judi :o)
<phoenyxx> It's like I said, I don't think he every
    mentioned much about his disability. He never really let on
    that things were so bad.
<Mooooooo> no, he never directly said anything
<Jason> for all the longer i've been using this channel
    he has always been there for us and to help us with our
    problems while he only got worse
<Mooooooo> just that he had some pain
<phoenyxx> and I have been here since May telling everyone
    how much things sucked for me.
<Susan> i talked to him nearly every night for a long
    time most nights for several months and he never let on
    that things were so bad -- i knew of a few aches and
    pains, mobility problems and other annoyances but never knew
    the extent of it
<judi> Maybe it helped him forget his problems by helping
    others
<phoenyxx> I feel like the world's biggest jerk right about
    now.
<Mimi> yep, he was honest about how he felt but didn't
    want it to be a big deal
<Mimi> why, simon?
<Jason> i think that might of been true judi
<Jo> Don't feel that way phoenyxx
<Susan> he said that complaining didn't make him feel
    better, didn't change anything (not my own attitude, but a
    nice one nonetheless)
<Jason> he was always a helpful listening friend to me
<phoenyxx> Mimi, look at what was happening to him over
    the past few months and look at the things I'd come here
    griping about or telling stupid jokes.
<Susan> simon it's ok, eh?
<Jason> he would listen to anything i would throw at him
    and still help me out
<judi> Sometimes it helps to complain Simon. If we can't
    be honest here, where can we be?
<Jo> phoenyxx you made him feel better, useful in way he
    could be, helping you.
<Mimi> simon, we all have out own way of dealing with
    things, hon
<Mimi> out = our
<Susan> i complained about bs you can't believe -- work
    problems, total idiocies -- Keith was always glad to listen
    and even to offer advice -- no one complains more than i
    (and i have a lot less to complain about than most on
    here)
<Jason> i never even had a clue how bad he was until i
    found out what happened
<Mooooooo> simon, i think we all liked your jokes, even if
    we didnt get them all :o)
<phoenyxx> true judi but I honestly want to do something
    for other people and it really gets to me that I never
    once asked him how he was doing.
<Jo> phoenyxx sometimes thats what we get on here to
    forget, last question we want asked.
<judi> All of us care about each other, at least I know
    I have come to care for all of you
<Susan> i even subjected Keith to several hours of
    complaining about how sick i am of dating and the litany
    of losers i've met -- i wish i hadn't done that
<Jason> same here
<Mooooooo> you all are my best friends
* Susan hugs Daniel
<Mimi> I feel the same way, Daniel :o)
<Jason> if you are here i will be a set of ears that
    you can tell anything to
<Mooooooo> thanks :o)
<Jason> adn i hope to be as big of a help as keith was
<judi> I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I feel
    like I get support and acceptance here that is hard to
    find in other places.
<Jason> i feel the same here
<phoenyxx> I remember when I first came here back in May,
    it felt so good to chat with different disabled people and
    not
<Mooooooo> judi, thats what I wrote in my letter to his
    parents...
<Mooooooo> when he first started coming here, he never said
    a word
<phoenyxx> feel any of the one-upmanship I've seen
    elsewhere. And Keith was here acting so casual about his
    own situation.
<Jason> it's hard for me to get respect when people see
    my chair or diapers or such
<phoenyxx> Jason I can relate to that.
<Lao-tzu> Well Carly, it seems spirituality has remained the
    main issue, albeit through the loss of a friend, he still
    has us extoling his spirituality and in so doing we
    discover some of our own.
<Mooooooo> until one day when he told us that he was
    going to die
<Amazin1> nice kick Mooooo
<Mooooooo> and how it would happen
<Jo> Same here Jason
<Jason> very well done
<Susan> i missed that moo
<Mooooooo> i think he was waiting for rejections
<judi> That was good Moooooooo, I'm still working on my
    note to them. Its hard because all three of my kids are
    in their 20's and I can't help but comparing.....
<Susan> but i did some research on my own and talked to
    him about it
<Mooooooo> and nobody rejected him
<Susan> i'm still doing my card too
<Mooooooo> and thats when he opened up to all of us
<Jason> i will have to make sure to send a card and
    mabey alittle something extra
<phoenyxx> it just bothers me not knowing.
<Jason> not knowing waht phoen
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<phoenyxx> not knowing what's going on with someone, make
    me feel really insensitive.
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<Mimi> hi Ket :o)
<Jason> hello wood
<woodgirl> hi everyone
<Jo> hello woogirl.
<woodgirl> hi jo
<Amazin1> hi woodgirl :)
<Jason> i know what you mean phoen
<phoenyxx> hello woodgirl
<woodgirl> and amazin
<judi> Do you read minds Simon? If not you couldn't have
    known. Hi woodgirl
<woodgirl> hi judi
<Lao-tzu> hi woodgirl
<woodgirl> hi lao
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<phoenyxx> I know judi but it still upsets me. I've met
    people with a sprained ankle trying to tell me they know
    what it's like not being able to walk, and I'd see Keith
    here with MD seeming so casual about it, not complaining
    or
<Jason> hello han
<phoenyxx> comparing his situaiton to everyone else's.
<judi> Carly, I wish you would say something. Your silence
    worries me.
<Lao-tzu> hi Jason
<hanover9> hi Jason where are you calling from
<woodgirl> hi Jason!
<hanover9> o hi Jason
<HelloKit> I'm sorry, Judi.
<Jason> i meant to say fit
<Mooooooo> i think it sets an example for all of us
<hanover9> no
<judi> Are you ok?
<Jo> Oh I was beginning to think you disability was split
    personality.
<Mooooooo> and it did re-define our mission here
<Mimi> yep, that's what I was saying too
<phoenyxx> true Daniel
<HelloKit> Yeah, I'm okay.
<haa> i do not like to talk about how bad i am disabled
<Mooooooo> we are taking our meetings to so much more
    positive things
<hanover9> yess
<judi> Could you expand on that Daniel?
<Jo> haa that is the nice thing about here. You don't
    have to if you don't want to.
<Mooooooo> and its because of Keith
<Mimi> that's so true
<Mooooooo> he set an example that we should let people
    know how we are, but not to bitch idly about everything
<judi> Yes, he was always upbeat
<phoenyxx> one of the things I'm finally getting therapy
    for is feeling guilty about everything. Coming here, it's
    one of the few places that people treated their
    disabilities equally. Seeing Keith handle things the way he
    did was really something.
<Lao-tzu> I was born in Indonesia. When somebody passes
    away people actaully feel happy for the person departing.
    People dress in white and dance in honour of the diceased.
    We all feel bad and yet should perhaps give a little
    thought to this.
<phoenyxx> exactly Daniel.
<Mooooooo> I agree Han.
<hanover9> agree
<HelloKit> Good point, Han.
<Susan> the bad feeling is pretty much the selfish aspect
    of it, Lao-tzu, I think
<judi> I like to believe that when a person dies they
    enter an eternally, peaceful, painfree existence.
<Mimi> one thing I can say is that I'm glad he's no
    longer in pain...he was in so much pain
<Jason> i feel like such an ass coming here and spilling
    out my guts about how bad i was while poor keith was far
    worse than i could ever be
<Mooooooo> I'm not sad for Keith, his pain is gone and
    thats a welcome thing. I'm sad for the loss of his
    companionship
<Jo> Lao-tzu I've read about many religions and like the
    way some look upon death as a rebirth, a beginning not an
    end.
<Mimi> Yes, susan, we're feeling sorry for ourselves
<Susan> me too mooo -- memorial services are definitely for
    the living
<Mooooooo> as well as sad for the loss all of us are
    feeling
<phoenyxx> Jason that is exactly how I feel.
<Jo> Mooooooo memorial services aren't for the deceased,
    they are to help the living cope and go on.
* Jason gives phoenyxx a big hug
<phoenyxx> thank you.
<Jason> np
<judi> Hospice has really helped me cope with my dad's
    death
<Mimi> recently the mother of one of my best friends died,
    and I spent four days crying because I knew that my
    friend would be in so much pain, not because I felt bad
    for her mother
<Jason> i feel the same jo
<Jason> it's funny how we will cry for what may seem
    like no reason at all but it is a very good reason
<Jo> My dad ran a cemetery when I was little and I spent
    a lot of time playing there. Guess I have a different
    outlook on it all.
<Susan> i'm not a religious person but decided to look up
    the text of the traditional Jewish prayer for the dead --
    it made me feel (slightly) better to say it
<hanover9> letstake a moment to think of the best it can
    be for keithright now he could be freed from the confines
    of his troubled body and running down a slightly wooded
    medow with a smile on his face
<Mooooooo> As much as I want to run away at the moment,
    i know that we all have to be here for the next Keith
<judi> They sent one booklet about coping with the holidays
    coming up. It suggests changing routines, in a way that is
    what is happening here, a change from negative to positive
<Susan> keith added a lot to our lives but we added
    significantly to his as well --even with our griping ;-)
    -- and i think we can feel good about that
<Mooooooo> Yep, I feel very happy about that Susan :o)
<judi> I do too Susan.
<Jo> Mooooooo you can't run from death anywhere in this
    world. But we can face life and not run from it.
<hanover9> we can feel a loos at his parting but it is
    some comfort that he verry well may be in eternal peace
<Susan> me too y'all -- it's the only thing that makes me
    feel good about it
<Susan> the thought that we were there for him and did
    all we could as the sort of friends we are through this
    rather 'futuristic' almost medium
<Lao-tzu> I didn't know Keith all that well, however from
    everything I have seen so far, I believe we should take a
    moment and celebrate all his achievements rather than mourn
    his departure.
<Jason> i loke to think that when i cry for a person,
    or feel bad at that, that that person has made an
    impression on my life and when i cry i'm letting myself
    know that that impression is goneand that that person who
    made the impression is gone and is sorrowfully not going
    to be able to make anouther impression on the next person
    who wanders by
<Mimi> I think we meant a lot to Keith :o)
<Mooooooo> computer friendships are very different, but very
    real
<Mimi> sometimes they're more real
<phoenyxx> I need to leave in a minute. sorry about that
    but I at least wanted to drop by for this.
<phoenyxx> true mimi.
<judi> How true
<Jason> mooo they are very real
<Mimi> thanks for coming Simon :o) *hugs*
* HelloKit gives phoenyxx a hug.
<phoenyxx> hugs back to mimi. :-)
<Susan> they sure are real but try explaining it to flesh
    and blood friends
<phoenyxx> thank you carly.
<Lao-tzu> bye Simon
<judi> Night Simon
<phoenyxx> I can relate to that Susan.
<Jason> later simon
<Mimi> true susan :o) they think we're nuts
* Susan hugs Simon
<phoenyxx> bye everyone.
<phoenyxx> :-) Susan.
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<Jo> Thats their problem. Ignore them and do what makes
    you happy.
<phoenyxx> see you all later, and I'll try to get
    something out to Keith's family in the next few days.
<haa> bye
<Mimi> good advice, Jo
<Amazin1> I must be going also...take care and *hugs* to
    all :)
<judi> hugs back, bye
<Mimi> Bye Denise! :o)
<Lao-tzu> by Denise
<Mimi> *hugs*
<Jo> My hubby is happy I am on here. Friends think it's
    crazy. I feel I get to meet people in my own situation
    that understand and not people who try to adopt me as
    their pet cripple to make themselves look important.
<haa> bye denise
<Jo> bye denise
<Jason> later
<Jo> I've had 25 years of some of these so-called friends
    and don't need anymore.
<judi> Who has friends? Mine tend to wander away because I
    can no longer join in
<hanover9> jo we do acept you and arev here to suporrt
    you in your trials
<Mimi> I'm just here because I like the people here.
    They're real. :o)
<Mimi> and fun, too :o)
<judi> uplifting
<Lao-tzu> I'm a real 'sit down' comedian...
<Mimi> heh
<Jo> I complain, blame it on Jewish great grandfathers
    genes, but after all these years I am used to most of it
    and just go day by day. Really they said I would be dead
    at 40 and I am 51 and still here. Even do research for
    historical society and column weekly. I don't fear death, I
    challenge it.
<judi> Good attitude Jo
<haa> say something funny han
<hanover9> jo if you can say that you have one true
    friend in a life time youare lucky,ordinary people come and
    go all of the time but that true friend will be at your
    side always
<Jo> I am laziest person in world and it takes less
    muscles to smile than to frown so I just paste one on
    and off I go.
<Mimi> yep, han, I agree
<Jo> I have true friends, but have learned how to spot others in 
   life. Especially when their gossip reaches me.  Hate word poor 
   cirpple used in context with my name. Burns me up.
<judi> ME TOO
<Jo> My chair must be humungeous cause that is all some people 
   see, not my brain or my sense of humor.
<Jo> Keith let all of us see him as a person, the way he wanted 
   to be seen, not a disease.
<hanover9> jo it all depends or how you take wordsi use "gimp when 
   refering to my own handicap the words do not bother me but if i 
   can say something negitive about my own dissibility  it takes some 
   of themistery or pressure of being around a dissibility of others
<judi> Have to go.  I've set an hour on my typing limits.  My prayers 
   and thoughts will be with all of you
<HelloKit> *hugs* judi
<hanover9> thanks judi
<Jo> chihuahua is trying to get up on keyboard again. Thinks it can 
   type. I accept my disability but want to be recognized as more 
   than a chair, I want them to see the person in it and treat me 
   accordingly. Selfish I know. But some bubas around here really tic 
   me off at times. MCP and scared of anything different. Afraid they 
   might catch it. Stupidity.
*** Quits: judi (judi)
<Jo> It is very important that we educate the people of this world.
<hanover9> jo most people in this world are ignorant and afraid of us
<Jo> They are afraid of their own immortality and we remind them of 
   it so they fear us.
*** Joins: ChanServ (services@services.newnet.net)
<hanover9> we remind them both of their own mortality and the fact 
   that they may not be as strong as they think because they may not 
   be able to handel what we have been given
<Jo> sorry mortality not immortality.   They think they are immortal.
<Susan> thanks Lao-tzu
<Mimi> it's beautiful  :o)
<Jo> That must have been one heck of a black out you all had up there.
<Mimi> wb guys  :o)
<haa> time to leave this sweat sorrow
<hanover9> yes mortality thought i deleted theim jo
<Mimi> I hope Daniel's ok
<HelloKit> Did he leave while we were split?
<Jo> Now that you are all back on line, I gotta go. Ferret face is 
   due to call and don't want him to worry needlessly.  Take care 
   hugs to all.  Jo
<Mimi> bye Jo!  *hugs*
<haa> goodbye
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Nov 19 19:17:22 1997