*** LOG OPENED: Thu Sep  4 01:01:51 1997
---
Participants:
  HandiBot (disabled@trantor.student.utwente.nl)
  HelloKit
  haa
  Mooooooo (dse@pacific.net)
  Deb
  Pei
  Mimi (mimi@lino.com)
  ChanServ (nanook@eskimo.com)
  DopeHat (khodgdon@ionet.net)
  Lao-tzu (jazcorp@ican.net)
  Mooooooo via Telnet (dse@pacific.net)
---
<Mimi> hello Han! 
<HelloKit> welcome han 
<Lao-tzu> hi all 
<Mimi> thanks for the email yesterday! 
<HelloKit> r we ready 2 start? 
<Lao-tzu> welcome, my pleasure, hope it's informarmative 
<Mimi> yep 
<Mimi> it is, Han :o) 
<haa> mimi it does have a high roof 
<Mimi> I've seen it from afar, but that's it. You don't 
    like it? 
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<Mimi> hello jolene! :O) 
<HelloKit> hello jolene 
<Mimi> jinx 
<haa> it is not comfortable but is practical 
<HelloKit> :oP 
<jolene> hello everyone! 
<Mooooooo> Hi jolene! 
<HelloKit> is every1 ready 2 start? 
<Mooooooo> I am 
<jolene> All set to go. 
<haa> hello jolene 
<jolene> hi 
<haa> what is the topic 
<HelloKit> heh... lucky 4 me i have all my q's typed out 
    and ready 2 copy & paste 
<jolene> What are we going to talk about tonight? 
<Mooooooo> Aches and Pains 
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<Mooooooo> Solutions 
<HelloKit> topic is: 'solutions 4 those aches& pains' 
<Ariella> hi :) 
<Mooooooo> Fenicia! 
<HelloKit> 1st question: 
<HelloKit> How many experience some kind of aches or pain 
    as a result of their disability? 
*** Ariella is now known as Fenicia
<Mooooooo> I do 
* HelloKit raises her hand 
* Lao-tzu can feel the rods in his back 
<jolene> Solutions to what kinds of aches and 
    pains--temporary or chronic? 
<HelloKit> whatever comes up jolene 
<HelloKit> what kind of pain, mooooooo? 
<Mooooooo> any time i bend over for more than 30 seconds 
    it hurts bad when i get back up 
* HelloKit . o O ( i hate the enter key on this kb ) 
<jolene> I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia with 
    Chronic Myofascial Pain. 
<Mimi> I experience pain completely unrelated to my 
    disability, is that ok? 
<Mooooooo> i have to lay flat on my back for a few 
    minutes 
<HelloKit> doesnt sound fun, moo or jolene 
<Mimi> hi Fenicia :o) 
<HelloKit> :o( 
<Lao-tzu> technically there are 2 kinds of pain -- acute 
    and chronic 
<haa> i have chronic pain and swelling in my lower left 
    arm - my only useful arm 
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<HelloKit> i get sharp arthritis-like pain in almost all my 
    major joints - wrists, hips, knees, ankles 
<jolene> My pain is chronic, but I've had other medical 
    problems in the last year and a half that have caused 
    both chronic and acute to attack at the same time. 
<HelloKit> especially my wrists 
<HelloKit> Has anyone asked a doctor about the pain? 
<Mimi> what's the difference between chronic and acute? 
<jolene> HelloKit, what do you do for the arthritic pain? 
<haa> i take lots of over the counter pain stuff 
<HelloKit> not much, jolene - i do have braces 4 my 
    wrists 
<Mooooooo> mine just told me not to bend over for longer 
    than 1 minute 
<HelloKit> real helpful, huh moo? 
<Lao-tzu> acute pain is sudden, chronic is long-lasting 
<jolene> Chronic pain is severe and unending. It really 
    never goes away--only the severity varies over time. Acute 
    is severe pain that is alleviated over time, and it 
    disappears. 
<Mooooooo> there isnt much else that could be done 
<HelloKit> anybody else asked a doctor? 
<haa> acute goes away but chronic does not 
<HelloKit> personally i went to my ot - she made my wrist 
    braces 
<jolene> My problem is that I cannot take 
    anti-inflammatories because they give me ulcers. So I live 
    with the pain. 
<Mimi> ok, well then I have chronic jaw pain due to TMJ 
<Lao-tzu> Book to read: The Challenge of Pain 2nd ed. by 
    Ronald Melzack & Patrick D. Wall 
<Mimi> my doctor doesn't know what TMJ is! 
<HelloKit> thats always nice, mimi :o/ 
<Lao-tzu> too much jibing? 
<Mimi> yeah, Carly :o) 
<Lao-tzu> sorry :-) 
<Mimi> lol 
<jolene> Mimi, I know what that's like because I too have 
    TMJ problems and arthritis in the jaws. 
<haa> i collect natural resource sites these days 
<HelloKit> could be worse - our former dr. claims fetal 
    alcohol syndrome doesnt exist 
<Mimi> what do you do for your TMJ, jolene? 
<Mooooooo> I have a pretty high tolerance to pain 
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<Mooooooo> hello luscious 
<Mimi> hello luscious 
<Mimi> jinx 
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<jolene> I had a doctor once tell me that if they did 
    not teach him about a particular ailment at Harvard, then 
    it must not exist, and he was serious! 
<HelloKit> has anyone had a doctor recommend something that 
    worked or at least helped? 
<Mooooooo> sheesh 
<Mimi> wow, jolene! 
<^tejo> hi all 
<HelloKit> hey tejo 
<Mimi> not so far, Carly 
* ^tejo sends greetings to HelloKit 
<Mooooooo> lol, well i quit bending over for more than 1 
    minute :o) 
<Mimi> my dentist helped a bit, though 
<jolene> I find that manipulative therapy does a good job 
    for short periods of time. 
<Mimi> sounds reasonable, Daniel *g* 
<HelloKit> what did your dentist say/do, mimi? 
<Mimi> he made me a bite splint 
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<Lao-tzu> tolerance is a must -- what is needed is the 
    ability to live with pain: that is, to evolve and maintain 
    patterns of behaviour that prevent pain from totally 
    dominating life. If you succeed in this tou will raise 
    your pain tolerance. 
<HelloKit> what is that? 
<Mimi> I have to wear it at night, it helps keep my jaw 
    in place when I sleep 
* HelloKit nods 
<Mimi> it's like a mouthpiece, kind of like a retainer 
<Mooooooo> thats pretty much how i handled it Han 
<Mimi> it helped but it wasn't a cure 
<jolene> Pain tolerance can be learned over time--I've had 
    this chronic muscle and joint pain now for 10 years. 
<HelloKit> Has anyone turned to some kind of alternative 
    (herbal, for example) treatment for pain? 
<Mooooooo> I tried Herbal for pain and for sleep 
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<Lao-tzu> Daniel, you're right up there! 
<Mooooooo> all i got was disgusting smelly burps 
<kb9kyy> hello 
<Mimi> lol 
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<Mooooooo> hi brad 
<HelloKit> lol moo i know what u mean! 
<kb9kyy> hi all 
<HelloKit> hiya brad 
<Lao-tzu> hi brad 
<haa> i keep adding more natural stuff carly 
<Mimi> hey Jeff 
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<Mooooooo> LOL 
<Mooooooo> howdy cam 
<ManwCam> wow...look at all the ppl 
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<jolene> I've been hesitant to try alternative types of 
    herbal therapy because they are not regulated or 
    standardized. 
<Mimi> hello ManwCam 
<ManwCam> howdy mooooo and all 
<kb9kyy> what's the topic? 
<jolene> Hi ManwCam 
<HelloKit> i tried an herbal deep heat rub a couple weeks 
    ag for a pulled muscle 
<Mooooooo> did it work carly? 
<HelloKit> it worked 4 a while but eventually the pain 
    came back 
<Mimi> Brad the topic is 'pain' 
<kb9kyy> Boy! can I talk about pain!!! 
<Lao-tzu> Jolene: sometimes you have to stray the path of 
    the regulated and standardized -- I had a pressure sore 
    that I treated with 'Dragon's Blood' a resin from the bark 
    of an Amazon tree. Scabbed in 5 minutes and healed in 1 
    1/2 weeks. NO standardized/regulated treatments beat that. 
<jolene> I've found that water therapy alleviates some of 
    the deep muscle pain I've had--but can't use it now 
    because of seizures. 
<HelloKit> has anyone used an alternative treatment that 
    helped? 
<kb9kyy> i tried hitting my head on the wall, all it did 
    was knock me out...<G> 
<kb9kyy> just kidding 
<HelloKit> lol brad 
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<Mimi> well, putting my cup of hot coffee up against the 
    side of my face works wonders 
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<HelloKit> serious mimi? 
<jolene> Hi jody 
<haa> i use wrist splints ordered out of a catalog that 
    work 
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<kb9kyy> with all of my eye problems, I get headaches out 
    the ***, and asprins don't usually help 
<jody-> hi everyone... sorry I'm late 
<Mimi> I also recommend not having two year olds in the 
    house :o) 
<HelloKit> brad - i may have somethin 4 u 
<jolene> The old heating pad is always a plus for my 
    pain. 
<haa> hi jody 
<kb9kyy> i'll keep that in mind, what do you have for me, 
    hellokit? 
<Lao-tzu> hi jody 
* ManwCam has to take off... 
<Mimi> serious, Carly :o) 
<ManwCam> working on a puter 
<ManwCam> bye all 
<HelloKit> peppermint is supposed 2 help headaches - i suck 
    on an altoid 
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<Mimi> heya Jody :o) 
<jody-> has anyone discussed massage therapy? 
<kb9kyy> good, i've got plenty in the candy jar, i'll give 
    that a try, tnx 
<haa> i use ice packs too which work 
<Mimi> heat is great for a lot of my aches and pains 
<jody-> hey Mims! 
<jolene> HelloKit does that work for migraine-type headaches? 
<kb9kyy> no comment, mimi... 
<Mooooooo> massage is good 
<kb9kyy> double no comment! 
<HelloKit> but what really helps is 2 put some peppermint 
    drops on a handkerchief and inhale thru it 
<jolene> Moooooooo, massage is greatttttttt! 
<kb9kyy> seriously? 
<HelloKit> if u catch em 1st coming on, jolene 
<kb9kyy> ......... 
<jody-> I startedd massage therapy and it has really helped 
    my arthritis 
<Mooooooo> I heard about that on the radio Carly 
<Lao-tzu> Jolene: there is a special pain killer for 
    migraines -- sorry I forgot the name, just remember that 
    it was about $50 for 10 pills 
<HelloKit> yikes! 
<kb9kyy> does your spouse do it for you? ;-) 
<jolene> That's true--I sometimes think that the pain will 
    subside, only to find that I'm in a giant flare. 
<jody-> peppermint is good for stomach problems too 
<kb9kyy> it's also good for slingshot ammo 
<jody-> jolene.... do you have arthritis? 
<jolene> jody, what kind of stomach problems? 
<jody-> cramping..... mostly 
<jolene> jody, I have Fibromyalgia. 
<HelloKit> brb 
<kb9kyy> my mom will be glad to hear that 
<kb9kyy> don't threaten us 
<kb9kyy> <G> 
<jody-> but if you make a chamomile/peppermint tea it is 
    good for cramping and diahrea 
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<Mooooooo> Denise!! 
<Amazin1> Hiya!!! 
<jolene> hi Amazin1! 
<Amazin1> hi jolene 
<Mimi> whoa I'm lagged 
* Mooooooo hugs the stuffing outta Denise 
<haa> my husb has a food pharmacy book and is always 
    telling me to eat a raw onion daily 
<HelloKit> i wish i could talk my mom into coming online 
    w/ us - shes the herbal guru :o) 
<Mimi> ping me 
<Mimi> hello Denise :o) 
<Amazin1> :-) 
<jody-> I have lots of books on the subject..... 
<kb9kyy> 17 secs, mimi 
<jody-> I have used the chamomile/peppermint tea a lot and 
    it really works.. 
<HelloKit> 15 mimi 
<Mimi> thanks guys, I guess I'm ok now 
<kb9kyy> ping me 
<kb9kyy> not bad, 3 secs 
<HelloKit> 1 sec brad 
<kb9kyy> i'll be back in a few, gonna get my hair cut... 
<haa> i now take the grape seed stuff, the pine tree 
    stuff and a few more 
<kb9kyy> i won't log off, though 
<HelloKit> hehe, how bout thirst, any1 got a solution 4 
    that? 
<jody-> H2O? 
<Mooooooo> drinking works for me 
<Lao-tzu> 32 Mimi 
<HelloKit> lol thanx guys :o) 
<jolene> Water with a twist of lemon or lime is great for 
    thirst. 
<kb9kyy> moooo, send me this log when you're done... 
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<Mimi> personally I rely heavily on Tylenol 
<Lao-tzu> Moo -- you mean if it doesn't help the pain at 
    least you have a good time? :-) 
<HelloKit> Does anyone have any pain that they haven't 
    found a solution for? 
<haa> carly i got an iced tea machine and lots of great 
    teas 
<jody-> I take so much medicine I try not to add any 
    more 
<Mooooooo> Tylenol does nothing for me 
<jody-> I'm serious about the massage therapy though.... 
<Mooooooo> heh, Han carly asked for a solution to thirst 
<Mimi> yeah, my back, Carly 
<Mimi> I've thought about massage therapy, jody 
<jody-> go.... 
<jolene> I have to use Tylenol 3 w/Codeine before the 
    severe pain subsides to the point I can sleep at night if 
    I get those migraine type headaches. 
<Mooooooo> yes, the opposite sex 
<Mimi> what has it done for you? 
<jody-> it really works 
<Mimi> heh, would be nice 
<Lao-tzu> I take 2000mg aspirin + 30 mg valium and I'm in 
    business. Luckily the valium doesn't put me to sleep 
<HelloKit> ugh... the neighbors in back are playing country 
    music really loud 
<jody-> a licensed massage therapist is like a physical 
    therapist... 
<HelloKit> not that i dont like the music, but it is 
    kinda loud 
<jody-> my therapist has been working on my hands which 
    are really bad because of the RA... 
<jolene> I can't afford massage therapy--my insurance won't 
    pay for it. 
<haa> jody when you have a diablity you do what does work 
    and what might work 
<jody-> it helps... I didn't realize that it would, not 
    that much 
<jody-> some physically therapy centers have massage 
    therapists/physical therapists... 
<Mimi> I wonder if I can go even if I can't lie on my 
    stomach 
<jody-> then insurance does pay for it... that's how I do 
    it 
<jolene> Have you tried manipulative therapy? 
<jody-> they have chairs specially designed Mimi 
<jody-> never heard of it Jolene 
<haa> jolene i have grown to hate insurance 
<Mimi> oh, that's cool :o) 
<jody-> especially workers comp insurance.... 
<jody-> massage works well for headaches too 
<jolene> It's osteopathic generated theraphy that stretches 
    the muscles to make them relax--much like massage therapy. 
<HelloKit> yes jody :o) i always have chris massage my 
    temples when i have a headache 
<jody-> my PT does that to me a little bit... it helps 
<jolene> haa, I detest insurance companies telling what can 
    and can't be done. 
<jody-> I was very skeptical at first especially when she 
    started massaging my hand joints... 
<jody-> but what a difference 
<Pei> I MISSED IT! 
<Pei> I MISSED THE MEETING! 
<jody-> I personally believe that all insurance people 
    shhould be rounded up and shot.... 
<jody-> but that is only my opinion 
<HelloKit> something that works for me with heachaches (most 
    of mine are sinus/allergy related) is to plug my nose & 
    blow air thru, like when yer trying 2 pop yer ears 
<haa> mine too 
<jolene> My insurance only pays for short-term physical 
    therapy. Do you all have similar type of insurance. If you 
    do, how do you handle chronic, long-term problems? 
<Mimi> lol 
<jody-> Carly.... have you tried Flonase for your 
    allergies/sinus? 
<HelloKit> no jody, what is that? 
<jody-> I'm on comp and the judge ordered the company to 
    pay... 
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<jody-> it is a great new medicine that is only topical 
    for the nose... 
<HelloKit> is it rx or otc? 
<jolene> jody, is it better than Vancenase? 
<jody-> you put 2 squirt per nostril and it alleviates 
    allergies.. 
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<haa> i am geting on long term disability and have dual 
    coverage for private ins 
<jody-> it is rx.... Flonase is the name. there are no 
    generics 
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<HelloKit> i use nasacort & echinacea right now 
<jody-> I used echinacea but had too many sinus 
    infections.... so I use this now to prevent them 
<Pei> Ok get this. My chair is 31 and a half inches 
    long, and the lift on the bus is 30 inches.... so we had 
    to take it in and get a new axle for it, i'm pissed, i 
    want at least an angle, they said they can get a 4 
    degree angle at the most and it will make it 29 inches 
    long.... Right now i have a loaner chair... it's weird.... 
    :( 
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<HelloKit> i cant get anything rx right now - my parents 
    ins. stopped covering anything 4 allergies a few months 
    ago, & now i dont even know if theyll cover me since im 
    18 
<jody-> oh... it isn't very expensive because my brother 
    doesn't have insurance and he can afford to pay for the 
    rx 
<Pei> OH! AND! In the lunch line at school i went through 
    and got my meal, then going around the other side of the 
    railing there is part of the wall that sticks out and i 
    can't get through, so i had to go through the kitchen at 
    school. 
<jolene> HelloKit, can you have your doctor give you 
    samples of Flonase? 
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<HelloKit> actually i take that back - they wont cover any 
    of our rx's anymore. theyll only cover certain pharmacies & 
    none of them r in our town 
<jody-> that's a good idea jolene.... see if you can get 
    a sample 
* Pei is pissed :( 
<jody-> Oh Pei.... cheer up kiddo 
<jolene> Pei, is the school doing anything to make the 
    area you use more accessible? 
<haa> my garage is full of broken down junk which seems 
    to go with disab 
* jody- hugs and kisses Pei 
<jody-> hey... iwiW is that you Mims? 
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<Mimi> yup :o) 
<jody-> cute... 
<Mimi> ping me 
<Mimi> having problems 
<jody-> seems like it 
<HelloKit> Does anyone have any suggestions for things that 
    others have brought up? 
<jody-> it took me 10 min to get on... all lines busy 
<Pei> well 
<jody-> I missed some of it.... like what 
<Pei> they aren't 
<Pei> but 
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<Pei> i think i'm gonna sneak in the school one night and 
    take a hacksaw to one of the railing legs, then i could 
    get through. 
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<HelloKit> lol pei 
<jody-> :))) 
* HelloKit slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout 
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<Pei> be sittin there, security comes 'Son, what are you 
    doing?' LOL 
<jolene> I've thought of trying yoga to try to relieve 
    some of my pain. Has anyone used yoga? 
<jody-> I have.... 
<jolene> thanks, Moooooooo! 
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<HelloKit> hey mr. ircop, how come chanserv's playin w/ the 
    topic again? 
<haa> insurance might be a good future topic 
<jody-> yes.... how to kill agents 
<Mooooooo> i reset it since it has been very stable 
<Pei> OH AND! I was at wal-mart today riding in the motor 
    cart and some clerk came up to me and said this exactly 
    'Excuse me partner, i'm with the store. Is there a reason 
    you are riding in that?' I about killed him. 
<Pei> Mooooooo is an IRCop 
<Pei> COOL! 
<Pei> :) 
<jody-> Pei.... sometimes people make mistakess... 
<jolene> I could go on for days about insurance. Sure you 
    want a topic like that--everyone on the channel will have 
    horror stories galore! 
<HelloKit> lol unbelievable - the only time they care who's 
    using it, its someone legit 
* Pei was gonna link his server here.... but they wanrt 
    me *mimick* dedicated! 
<jody-> I've been stopped for my handicap parking tag.... 
<Pei> HelloKit: yeah :) 
<Pei> jody-: ack! 
<jody-> one very threatening letter to the town stopped 
    that real quick... 
<haa> jody there must be a way to kick thier butt 
<jolene> I really resent people who look down their noses 
    at me because my handicaps are not apparent to the naked 
    eye. 
<Pei> jody-: :) :) :) 
<jody-> they even threw out a ticket that I DID deserve... 
    :))) 
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<HelloKit> some old lady cussed out my bf 4 using the 
    sticker & getting out of the car, when he was coming 
    around to help me out! 
<Pei> jody-: Oh BTW, you PROMISED ME THOSE HEXES! :) 
<jody-> same here jolene 
<jody-> later Pei.... they can't be used in anger... 
<jody-> how are you doing Kiddo? 
<jody-> Mimi is really having problems... 
<jolene> Texas has decided to take away free parking for 
    the handicapped as of Sept 1. 
<jody-> what???!!!! it figures.... 
* Pei made an enemy at school right away yesterday. And i 
    was leaving today and he made some mean comment and i 
    said 'Get a life looser.' and he got closer and said 
    'What?' and I was 'I said, Get - a - life - loser.' so 
    he whacked me on the back of the head :( 
<Mooooooo> how come? 
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<jody-> Pei.... did you report it? 
<Pei> jody-: oh you know teachers, i did report it and my 
    friend was a witness, they said 'We need to see it to do 
    anything!' 
<jody-> hi Mimi.... 
<Mimi> hi :o) 
<jody-> what about your parents? 
<HelloKit> moo does amc affect yer hands? 
<Pei> Bah, i didn't bother with that 
<Mooooooo> yep, sure does 
<jody-> hey Mimi.... did you read the letter? 
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<Mimi> yeah Jody, great letter :o) 
<HelloKit> good, well not good, but i have a q 4 u 
<jody-> so????? what was your impression 
<Pei> i pulled my armrest off and said 'you wanna make 
    soemthing of it' i should have hit him right there, but i 
    would have been suspended :( 
<Mooooooo> okay :o) 
<Mooooooo> not if they didnt see it 
<jody-> Pei.... learn to control your temper! 
<Pei> Mooooooo: HAHAHA LOL 
<Pei> jody-: i try, i really do, but when someone whacks 
    me on the back of the head i have a hard time.... 
<HelloKit> i get these blisters on my hands, i think i 
    told u bout them - like sweat blisters. do u think they 
    could be caused by the fact that my hands r closed up 
    most of the time? 
<Mooooooo> i doubt it 
<jody-> but Pei.... you made the comment 
<haa> get a peper ggun jody 
<Pei> jody-: he made the comment, i told him to get a 
    life 
<jolene> bye y'all 
<Lao-tzu> Jolene: Changes in blood pressure and hormonal 
    changes could be the trigger for migraines. Other triggers 
    could be a shift in the endocrine system associated with 
    menstruation or taking contraceptive pills. There is also a 
    known genetic component, which itself could be the 
    overdevelopment of excitatory faculties of the sensory syetm. 
    Bottom line as far as I know is acceptance of pain 
    without an external cause in the form of tissue damage 
    becau 
<haa> Carly do you soak your hands 
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<Mimi> Fenicia! 
<jody-> be right with you Pei 
<Fenicia> Hi :) 
<HelloKit> i used 2 soak them in salt water - but it was 
    a pain 2 stand over the sink & it didnt really do that 
    much good 
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<haa> hey carly how about aa little bubble bath for your 
    hand and then lots of vitamine e cream 
<Lao-tzu> Carly, what has the doctor said about it? Skin 
    specialist? 
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<HelloKit> every dr. weve gone 2 has just laughed us out 
    of the office 
<Lao-tzu> Even when the blisters are visible? 
<haa> hello moooooooo 
<HelloKit> they dont believe it even happens 
<Mooooooo> /:o) 
<HelloKit> they brush it off as a on-time occurence 
<HelloKit> one-time 
<Mooooooo> filled blistered or just air blisters? 
<HelloKit> filled, like sweat or water or something 
<Lao-tzu> ...hhmmmm 
<Mooooooo> weird 
<Mooooooo> no clue 
<HelloKit> oh well :oP 
<Lao-tzu> I'd try a skin specialist (again?) 
<Mooooooo> I would call Dr. Dean 
<haa> docs are wierd 
<jody-> I like my doctor... he's gorgeous too... 
<Amazin1> bye all.... :-) 
<HelloKit> yeah like that dr, that still tells his patients 
    2 drink a glass of beer at night when theyre nursing 
<Mooooooo> bye Denise! 
<HelloKit> lol jody 
<Lao-tzu> by Amazin1 
<jody-> that's an old wives tale.... they used to think it 
    was good 
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<HelloKit> tell that 2 this guy 
<haa> i really believe in vitamin rich cream 
*** LOG CLOSED: Thu Sep  4 02:07:55 1997