*** LOG OPENED: Wed Jul 21 17:59:33 1999
---
Participants:
  disabled
  ChanServ
  Lonewolf
  Mooooooo
  WonderW
  suzze
  anny1
  MsAmazin
---
<WonderW> I wasn't in channel more than 10 mins today 
<WonderW> hi Denise 
<MsAmazin> hi :) 
<Lonewolf> Ok meeting time 
<Mooooooo> okay :o) 
<Lonewolf> Tonight we are going rto discuass traveling with 
    disabilities 
<Lonewolf> This is a hard one for me because I don't 
    travel 
<Lonewolf> So everyone polease jump in 
<Lonewolf> 1. What modes of transportation have you used? 
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<MsAmazin> Amtrak, greyhound, my car, plane, boat 
<WonderW> paratransit 
<Mooooooo> plane, bus, and automobile 
<suzze> amtrak, plane, car 
<Lonewolf> oh good-we have a lot of topics 
<Kark> plane and car 
<Lonewolf> amtrack? 
<suzze> train 
<Kark> train 
<Lonewolf> oh 
<MsAmazin> amtrak train and bus 
<Lonewolf> could you all tell about your experiences? 
<anny1> car plane and train 
<suzze> some good, some bad 
<WonderW> I like planes 
<Lonewolf> what special accomodations did you require? 
<MsAmazin> Amtrak was good....met most of our needs 
<Lonewolf> what about wheelchairs though 
<WonderW> aisle seats 
<MsAmazin> buses with lifts were available 
<suzze> had major problem getting wheelchair at arrival gate 
<suzze> horrible experience 
<Lonewolf> I'm sorry WW what is an aisle seat? 
<MsAmazin> but about 1/2 were inoperable 
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<WonderW> gel cell batteries are usually ok 
<anny1> i dislike those little puddle jumper planes, the 
    big jets are fine 
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<WonderW> which is what I now have 
<Lonewolf> that's a lot of help Ms 
<MsAmazin> heh...we complained 
<WonderW> yeah, big much better 
<Lonewolf> has it improved? 
<MsAmazin> yes! tremendously 
<Lonewolf> great 
<MsAmazin> train service was excellent 
<Lonewolf> suzze what happened to you? 
<WonderW> oh, aisle seats are seats at end of aisle 
<Lonewolf> oh 
<MsAmazin> conductor made sure all of our needs were met, 
    I could use my oxygen concentrator on the train 
<Lonewolf> jeez I'm dumb 
<WonderW> np, dear 
<Lonewolf> can u use it on a plane? 
<suzze> had ordered w/c upon arrival, it never arrived 
<MsAmazin> I can on United 
<WonderW> oh no 
<Lonewolf> oh my suzze what did you do? 
<suzze> i waited for a really long time, and nothing 
    happened 
<Lonewolf> why not the others MS? 
<suzze> finally, i had to walk, was horrible experience, i 
    was very sick 
<Lonewolf> sorry suzze did you complain 
<suzze> yes 
<MsAmazin> some airlines do not permit...just there 
    policy...and airlines charge for use of their oxygen too 
<Lonewolf> what did they say? 
<WonderW> didn't united have a lawsuit over that? 
<anny1> i have always have had good luck with tranportation 
    assistance in the airport 
<suzze> i got 2 $100 flight certificates 
<Lonewolf> oh 
<MsAmazin> I'm on sure WW 
<Lonewolf> so anny your experience has been positive 
<MsAmazin> on = not 
<MsAmazin> we will not go greyhound 
<Lonewolf> I have to pack a suitcase to go to town 
<WonderW> I think they did, so now it's allowed 
<anny1> yes except for the planes you have to board via 
    stairs on the tarmack 
<Lonewolf> ok what's a tarmack? 
<MsAmazin> flight deck/runway 
<anny1> where the planes park big open space 
<Lonewolf> so no wheelchairs on those 
<anny1> donno if spelled correctly 
<Lonewolf> ?? 
<Lonewolf> np 
<Lonewolf> has everyone here been on a plane? 
<suzze> yes 
<MsAmazin> I have 
<Mooooooo> yep 
<Woz> hehe 
<MsAmazin> my crutches were taken away a few yrs ago lol 
<Angel_27> i have twice 
<Lonewolf> on a plane ms? 
<MsAmazin> yes 
<suzze> they took my cane 
<Lonewolf> WHY 
<suzze> dangerous 
<MsAmazin> a guy across the aisle got them back when the 
    attendant left 
<Lonewolf> what if ya have to go potty? 
<WonderW> I can't 
<Kark> planes I don't have much troubles but there are 
    planes with stairs, I have been lucky not to have been on 
    one 
<MsAmazin> exactly, and mine fit under the seat anyway 
<WonderW> use diapers on long flights 
<Lonewolf> so someone in a chair just holds it? 
<WonderW> yep 
<Lonewolf> yuck 
<MsAmazin> some planes have chairs that 
<MsAmazin> fit in the aisle and accessible restrooms 
<anny1> brb 
<Lonewolf> do you have to pay extra for that? 
<MsAmazin> no 
<WonderW> but if I were to travel alone, that wouldn't 
    help 
<Lonewolf> hum I have only been on a plane once over 20 
    years ago-terrified me the entire 20 minutes-lol 
<WonderW> I have to be transferred 
<Lonewolf> no me either laura I wud need a bit of help 
<Lonewolf> do you all travel alone? 
<MsAmazin> I've flown to Puerto Rico and back several 
    times....long way to hold it 
<suzze> i have 
<Lonewolf> yup 
<MsAmazin> I have...I flew to Va 
<WonderW> I have, yes, but only on short flights 
<Lonewolf> this all just amazes me 
<MsAmazin> my first solo flight 
<Lonewolf> oh 
<Kark> Yes but met someone at the other end 
<MsAmazin> was very smooth 
<WonderW> and somewhere where care needs taken care of 
<Angel_27> I flew from VA to Florida 
<suzze> i would prefer not to travel alone, have no choice 
<WonderW> which is rare 
<Lonewolf> what about the amtracks? 
<suzze> only did that once 
<MsAmazin> I've use amtrak twice 
<Lonewolf> there is no such thing around here 
<Lonewolf> accomodating? 
<MsAmazin> yes, and they give discounts to ppl with 
    mobility probs 
<suzze> the agents/phone were really great 
<WonderW> I generally don't travel because I have to pay 
    attendants ticket, accomodations, and time 
<MsAmazin> 15% 
<Lonewolf> wow 
<suzze> but..i got there late, and had reserved special 
    seating, i believe these ppl tood my seating 
<MsAmazin> cuz of a lawsuit 
<Lonewolf> only place I have ever heard that give the 
    disabled a dsiscount 
<suzze> was very uncomfortable on that leg of trip 
<suzze> going back was better 
<Lonewolf> IC suzze-what lawsuit ms 
<MsAmazin> they have train car specifically for ppl with 
    disabilities...lift, HUGE restroom 
<WonderW> I called amtrack once when I was going to go to 
    Phoenix, ended up not going, but they were great 
<MsAmazin> conductor will get food/drinks for you 
<Lonewolf> wow 
<Lonewolf> 5. Airplanes-is it safe to travel this way when 
    you are handicapped? (or 
<Lonewolf> not) 
<suzze> i was going to/coming back from a disability 
    conference 
<MsAmazin> a couple tried to travel by amtrak...couldn't get 
    around and sued on behalf of ppl with disabilities and won 
<suzze> trains were overcrowded w/disabled 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<Lonewolf> suzze do you go to disability conferences often? 
<suzze> no, once a year 
<MsAmazin> I go monthly 
<suzze> that was only time i was on train 
<Lonewolf> wish you would do a meeting on them afterwards 
<Lonewolf> really? 
<Lonewolf> same with you ms 
<suzze> me? 
<Kark> are trains were overcrowded w/disabled because they 
    are more accessable then other means of transportation 
<Lonewolf> bet you could teach us a lot 
<MsAmazin> yes, I'm involved in Partners in Policymaking 
<suzze> omg, don't know if i could 
<MsAmazin> we graduation in September 
<Lonewolf> great 
<Lonewolf> would u consider doing a meeting? 
<MsAmazin> yikes 
<Lonewolf> yes you could suzze 
<suzze> lol, my thought exactly 
<MsAmazin> heh...on? 
<Lonewolf> the meetings 
<Lonewolf> what's new 
<Lonewolf> what we need to know 
<Lonewolf> etc 
<Lonewolf> back to question 
<Lonewolf> 5. Airplanes-is it safe to travel this way when 
    you are handicapped? (or 
<Lonewolf> not) 
<MsAmazin> we've had conferences on inclusive education, 
    parliamentary procedure, SS, 
<anny1> i think planes are generally safe 
<MsAmazin> I haven't had a problem with airplanes 
<suzze> i think it is important to talk to the airlines 
    if you are having any problems 
<WonderW> speaking of paratransit, my bus is late 
<WonderW> :) 
<Lonewolf> 4. List some safety and comfort measures for car 
    travel. 
<MsAmazin> heh 
<WonderW> case in point 
<Lonewolf> what is paratransit? 
<WonderW> dial a ride, minivans 
<suzze> i only travel short distances by car 
<Lonewolf> oh ok 
<MsAmazin> safety measure: take enuff oxygen 
<Lonewolf> helps if needed 
<WonderW> that cover given areas 
<MsAmazin> :) 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<suzze> brink all your meds with you 
<Lonewolf> not available to me 
<Lonewolf> I feel like I pack a suitcase 
<suzze> i'm trying to keep some of my meds in car, so, 
    if i unexpectedly am late, i have meds 
<MsAmazin> I went to AAA before my last trip and found 
    out everything I needed to know about the route 
<Lonewolf> water, meds, extra pillows, chair, reading 
    material for sitting and waiting 
<Lonewolf> but is that safe suzze-heat and all? 
<Woz> blanket for car 
<suzze> would be great safety measure to have a cell phone 
<Lonewolf> yes blanket 
<Lonewolf> I have to have a reclining seat 
<MsAmazin> we have cell phones...but no service 
<suzze> just my diabetes stuff, that's most important 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<MsAmazin> in the middle of the desert to vegas 
<Lonewolf> I have cell phone 
<Lonewolf> hum 
<suzze> i don't have cell phone:o) 
<WonderW> me too 
<suzze> wish i could 
<Lonewolf> I have to wear cervical collar in car 
<anny1> yes cell phones can be a lifesaver if car breaks 
    down 
<MsAmazin> it came in handy when we were in the flood 
<Lonewolf> can't drive 
<Lonewolf> vibration on fragile disks 
<suzze> i should carry water with me all the time 
<suzze> i don't 
<MsAmazin> yes, I got cellphone for traveling to Ty's 
<Lonewolf> how many of you have wheel chair lifts in your 
    vehicles 
<Angel_27> I do 
<MsAmazin> not me...I have a grand am 
<Lonewolf> what kind angel? 
<Lonewolf> would be hard in trans am 
<Angel_27> just a hydrolic lift to get us in van 
<MsAmazin> grand am 
<WonderW> my mom 
<Lonewolf> is it one you ride up on? 
<WonderW> has a van with lift 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<Angel_27> yes 
<Lonewolf> I have a lift that raises chair into back of 
    mini van-not with me in it 
<Angel_27> its a van with a lift on it 
<anny1> i saw a really cool lift that moved a chair in 
    and out of a pickup bed, you know the wheelchair cowboys 
    here in tx hehe 
<Angel_27> we stay in chairs 
<Lonewolf> never seen that before 
<MsAmazin> hehe..have those here too 
<Lonewolf> even while in car? 
<Lonewolf> do chairs lock in place some way? 
<Angel_27> yes we have locks in the van 
<Lonewolf> what do you do for a seat belt 
<MsAmazin> do you drive Bev? 
<Angel_27> we have seatbelts on our chaors 
<Angel_27> chairs 
<Angel_27> not a t the moment 
<Angel_27> used to drive a car 
<Lonewolf> I do too-somewhere 
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<Lonewolf> hand controls? 
<Angel_27> hi reader 
<Angel_27> oops soory 
<Lonewolf> reader we are talking about car riding right now 
<Angel_27> no hand controls on van yet 
<Lonewolf> cud you still drive if you had them? 
<MsAmazin> I have handcontrols 
<Angel_27> yes if I learto drive a van, its bigger than 
    my car was 
<Lonewolf> work well? 
<Lonewolf> hand controld I mean 
<Lonewolf> s 
<MsAmazin> yes...Ty is learning to drive 
<MsAmazin> too 
<Lonewolf> great 
<Lonewolf> WW do you drive? 
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<Lonewolf> guess her bus got there 
<Lonewolf> reader 
<Reader_13> I have a van but I'm pretty sure I'll never 
    drive due to the level of my injury... 
<Lonewolf> who drives you? 
<Lonewolf> ok this is kinda nosey but how do you guys 
    afford to get the lifts etc? 
<Reader_13> friends or I use public para transportation 
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<MsAmazin> hand controls for my vehicle were under $100 
<Reader_13> I was working full time when I bought mine... 
    the lift... 
<MsAmazin> Nv has a program that will help ppl with 
    modifications on vehicle 
<Lonewolf> how much was it? 
<Lonewolf> what's it called MS 
<Reader_13> $3000 
<Lonewolf> wow 
<MsAmazin> and also car companies will help with some costs 
    $1000-$1500 
<Angel_27> we had some very dear friends that presented us 
    with a van with lift as a suprise..the one we had was so 
    old and breaking down all the time..They raised the money 
    for this one 
<Lonewolf> that's really sweet bev 
<suzze> there are some programs 
<Angel_27> that was 2 yrs ago....the old van didnt have 
    locks for chairs 
<suzze> Ford mobility program 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<Angel_27> it was a total suprise at Christmas 
<Lonewolf> I'm sure 
<Reader_13> OVR won't help with transportation unless the 
    disabled person can drive... here in Pennsylvania 
<Lonewolf> have no idea what Ky has to offer 
<MsAmazin> check with DMV? 
<Lonewolf> but sure sould use a better lift 
<Lonewolf> good idea 
<Lonewolf> anyone else have anything to say? 
<anny1> there is program that will help ppl with 
    developmental dis. get lifts/van's etc. called in-home family 
    support 
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<Lonewolf> we have a program in Ky kinda like that but 
    you can only apply once a year in April 
<Lonewolf> ROCK we are talking about cars and lifts etc 
<ROCK-> ok,tanks 
<Lonewolf> what about buses? 
<Lonewolf> anyone? 
<suzze> haven't been on acc buses 
<MsAmazin> greyhound sucks 
<Angel_27> we have a handicapped bus here that gets my 
    husband back and forth to work sometimes 
<Lonewolf> so I gather amtrack and United Airlines are the 
    best two travel choices 
<anny1> hard for me to climb steps on buses 
<MsAmazin> heh..sorry 
<Lonewolf> rock 
<Reader_13> PA uses large vans for the disabled... 
<Lonewolf> great 
<ROCK-> school busses now are equiped for that 
<MsAmazin> Reno has a bus program ...door to door service 
<Lonewolf> see I live wayyyyyyy out in the boonies-no 
    services like those mentioned available 
<Angel_27> yep I rode school busses the whole time I was 
    in school 
<anny1> we have a paratransit sys. but i hear its not too 
    reliable 
<MsAmazin> we have 1 w/c accessible bus in my town 
<Lonewolf> hum 
<MsAmazin> a school bus 
<Lonewolf> I have no alternatives past family transport 
<Lonewolf> and it has to be in my car so the lift is 
    available 
<MsAmazin> there isn't anything here either, LW 
<MsAmazin> I would be out of luck if I didn't drive 
<Lonewolf> good you can drive 
<anny1> yes lw rural definately has some disadvantages 
<Lonewolf> yes also live in small town 
<Lonewolf> well anymore horror stories? 
<MsAmazin> no taxi service here either 
<Lonewolf> here either 
<Lonewolf> wish we had amtrack 
<Reader_13> public para transit has its drawbacks-you can be 
    bumped whenever they wish, you must inquire days ahead for 
    rides, if you're late you may get stranded 
<MsAmazin> if you are in a w/c and caught in a flood in 
    Vegas ..do NOT expect to catch a taxi! 
<Lonewolf> that could be bad reader 
<Lonewolf> very bad denise 
<suzze> big bonus to have disabled plates, allows me to go 
    lots of places, downtown where i wouldn't go otherwise 
<MsAmazin> Ty experiences that often Reader 
<Lonewolf> I have the disabled placard 
<MsAmazin> I have placard...plates make me nervous 
<Lonewolf> know what aggravates me though? 
<suzze> why? 
<Lonewolf> small handicapped parking places-no room to get 
    chair by caar 
<anny1> nervous?? 
<Angel_27> i agree 
<MsAmazin> some ppl target ppl with plates 
<Reader_13> since I can't drive I can only use the placard 
<Lonewolf> what do you mean denise? 
<ROCK-> me too 
<Angel_27> handicapped spaces but not enough room to let 
    lift down aggrivates me 
<MsAmazin> for crimes 
<Mooooooo> get plates -and- NRA Member stickers 
<anny1> hehe 
<Woz> hehe yup 
<suzze> lol, i've never had a problem 
<MsAmazin> haha 
<Lonewolf> oh IC 
<Mooooooo> im serious 
<Lonewolf> stolen placards have been common around here 
<MsAmazin> happened to a friend and I in Reno several yrs 
    ago 
<Woz> me 2 
<Mooooooo> some car rental agencies put NRA stickers on 
    rental cars 
<Lonewolf> oh my daniel 
<Lonewolf> why? 
<Mooooooo> criminals don't like people who can kill them 
    first 
<suzze> rental cars=tourists 
<Lonewolf> IC 
<suzze> tourists crime targets 
<Lonewolf> max 
<anny1> is that rollin' and packin' huh mooooo 
<Woz> police advised me to remove nra sticker from front 
    door 
<Mooooooo> yep 
<Woz> it scares them 
<Lonewolf> have any of you with placard had trouble with 
    them falling apart before renewal time? 
<Mooooooo> thats why there are so few drive-by shootings 
    and car robberies in Arizona 
<Reader_13> scares the police? 
<Woz> yes 
<suzze> i think it's the heat daniel 
<Lonewolf> rock 
<Mooooooo> we shoot back 
<ROCK-> mine is permanant and I forgot the rest,sorry 
<Lonewolf> np 
<MsAmazin> just got my new ones 
<Lonewolf> my newest one is only a year old and already 
    taped together 
<anny1> what is it made of lw? 
<MsAmazin> can you request 2? 
<Lonewolf> anyone know of a way to prevent it? 
<Lonewolf> plastic 
<Lonewolf> rock 
<suzze> the one i had couldn't be broken 
<Reader_13> Laminate it 
<Lonewolf> I did 
<MsAmazin> mine is pretty sturdy too! 
<Lonewolf> don't laugh 
<Lonewolf> I used the iron on lamination 
<Lonewolf> it warped 
<anny1> mine seems to hold up fine 
<MsAmazin> that was prolly what made it fall apart lol 
<ROCK-> mine is permanent,but when it gets torn,it takes 
    2-3 months to get a new one 
<Lonewolf> my last one was all stapled together 
<Reader_13> put it between 2 clear pieces of plexiglass... 
<Lonewolf> that might work 
<Woz> dont leave plackards on car seats 
<Lonewolf> we stash mine under the seat 
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<Reader_13> van pockets 
<Lonewolf> well that's about it tonight 
<Woz> especialy plastic car seats 
<Lonewolf> I learned a lot tonight 
<anny1> glove compartment hee 
<anny1> here 
<Lonewolf> thanks everyone for all the input 
<Woz> plastics outgass 
<suzze> this must be a state thing, cause the ones they 
    issue here, really they r unbreakable 
<Lonewolf> not here 
<suzze> yes, u live in cheap state 
<Lonewolf> you see tape and stuff on everyones 
<MsAmazin> same here suze 
<Lonewolf> lol-yup 
<Reader_13> lol 
<Angel_27> lol 
<suzze> your prisoners prob make them 
<suzze> badly on purpose 
<Lonewolf> yup 
<Lonewolf> sure do 
<Lonewolf> meeting is over 
<suzze> ok 
<Lonewolf> continue to talk as long as you wish 
<ROCK-> ok 
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Jul 21 18:53:39 1999