*** LOG OPENED: Wed May 13 18:00:43 1998
---
Participants:
  HandiBot
  lisiado
  Lily
  ChanServ
  In
  Carrie
  Mooooooo (dse@pacific.net)
  HelloKit (disabled@softhome.net)
  gregsgg
  maggie
---
<gregsgg> center for independt living showed up at the 
    oakland office I think becuse grayhound dos not comform to 
    disabled ada rule of transport 
<HelloKit> Logging is on. 
<In> Carrie r u there? 
<Mooooooo> Hello :o) 
<Lily> hi mooooo 
*** Bluespark has joined #disabled
<Carrie> I am here 
<In> Hi Moooo 
<gregsgg> they well not install lifts on there buss and 
    claim that it would put them out of bissn. 
<maggie> hi moooooooo 
<In> u r quiet carrie 
<gregsgg> hi mooo 
<Carrie> I am talking in another mirc and in yahoo and in 
    icq BUSY 
<Lily> didn't know about it 
<maggie> what is the topic tonight 
<HelloKit> driving 
<maggie> good i need help with that 
<Mooooooo> awww, you didnt pick my title for the topic 
<HelloKit> lol 
<In> Nite everybody, Lily say hi to everyone for me, take 
    care all, ttyl 
*** Carrie has joined #Disabled (from netsplit)
<Mooooooo> I wanted 'Driving Miss Gimpy' 
<maggie> nit in 
<HelloKit> I told you I was gonna use this one :o) 
<Lily> bye, in, i will:) 
<gregsgg> so if you go by garyhound some one well lift 
    you on the buus and you are stuck there for the hole 
    trip cant go to the bathroom cant get off to take a 
    brack or eat at a stop many pepole have complained of 
    being hurt when some one who is not qual. lifts them 
*** In has left irc (In)
<HelloKit> Otherwise we would have had the Tracy-types in 
    here picketing... 
* Carrie is having a wierd night 
<maggie> what was daniels topic? 
<Mooooooo> I wanted 'Driving Miss Gimpy' 
<maggie> lol 
<Lily> sort of describes my husband 
<HelloKit> Are we ready? 
<Mooooooo> yes ma'am 
*** judi has joined #disabled
<Mooooooo> Judi!!!!!! *smoooooooch* 
* Carrie needs some help 
<HelloKit> Kinda empty tonight... 
<Lily> hi judi:) 
<judi> Moooooooooooo hugs 
<HelloKit> Okie, here I go... 
<Carrie> My sis is drivin me nuttie tonight 
<judi> Hi all 
<gregsgg> how bout driving moooo crazy 
<HelloKit> How many already drive with some kind of 
    adaptation or conversion to your vehicle? What kinds of 
    adaptations do you use? 
*** Carrie has left #disabled
* Mooooooo has a big rearview mirror that goes all the 
    way across the top 
<judi> Judi doesn't drive anymore:( 
<Lily> i don't drive, never will:(( 
<Mooooooo> my sis needs one too 
<judi> How does that help, Moooooo? 
<Mooooooo> i had a spinal fusion so i cant turn my neck 
    very far 
<Mooooooo> so the mirror lets me see everything 
<judi> ok, I see 
<Mooooooo> with few blind spots 
<Lily> ahhh 
<maggie> can you tell me what the basics a para would 
    need for getting a vehicle..i know a lift and hand 
    controls but what else 
<HelloKit> Why aren't there more people here? :o( 
<judi> Carly, do you drive? 
*** rosie_ has joined #disabled
<HelloKit> not yet 
<judi> hi rosie 
<rosie_> hi 
<gregsgg> hi rosie 
<Mooooooo> i think that would cover it maggie 
<Lily> hi rosie:) 
*** SnowQueen has joined #disabled
<rosie_> hi everyone 
<Mooooooo> I know that Emilie is para and she just got 
    her license last month 
<Mooooooo> hi kris and rosie 
<judi> hi Snowqueen 
<Lily> hi sq 
<gregsgg> hi sq 
<maggie> ok and there better brands for lifts and controls 
    or some that are not any good 
<SnowQueen> Hi lily :} 
<SnowQueen> Hi gregsgg 
<SnowQueen> Hi judi 
<SnowQueen> hello daniel and HelloKit 
<judi> I have a lift for my power chair 
<SnowQueen> I use a hand brake on my car 
<Mooooooo> hmmm, i don't know. i'll hunt down Emy and ask 
    her 
<judi> Is that hard to get used to? 
<SnowQueen> the hand brake ? 
<maggie> thanks ..looking to but for the first time and 
    have no idea what to get 
<judi> yup 
*** Bluespark has left #disabled
<SnowQueen> It wasnt for me judi..it gave me my first 
    taste of doing something in a year.. and they have 
    different kinds 
<judi> It wouldn't help me because my arms are weak too 
<judi> Lily have you ever driven? 
<Lily> yes, used to 
<SnowQueen> they have springs that adjust to the strength 
    judi 
<judi> that's interesting, what about the accelerator? 
<judi> Did everyone go to sleep? 
<Mooooooo> lag 
<judi> oh 
<SnowQueen> they have them that are for that but I have 
    enough use of my right foot to use the accelerator 
<judi> I see-this gives me hope for future driving!! 
<HelloKit> Were there any companies/businesses you found 
    especially helpful when learning to drive and/or adapting 
    your vehicle, which you would recommend to others? 
<Mooooooo> i got my license 4 years ago 
<SnowQueen> Just keep trying judi :} 
<judi> Probably a stupid question-but where do you go to 
    find out about these things? 
<Mooooooo> Carly, my school refused to put the mirrors in 
    the drivers ed cars 
<maggie> not stupid judi...is difficult to find..try iternet 
<Lily> we get info here at the TO rehab centre 
<Mooooooo> nobody was helpful back then 
<SnowQueen> there are places on the net .. but I have a 
    addy for you judi 
<HelloKit> nice guys :o/ 
<judi> A what? 
<maggie> here do you find used vans for the 
    disabled...looked in paper calssifieds.not finding anything 
<judi> Lily, what's a TO rehab center 
<Mooooooo> hmmm, thats a good question maggie 
<Lily> the Toronto rehabilitation centre 
<judi> ok 
<Mooooooo> i think they would be hard to find because once 
    someone has one, they keep it until it dies 
<HelloKit> We were contacted by an auto wholesaler 
    recently... he normally only sells to dealerships but said 
    when we were ready he'd be willing to sell us a van 
    wholesale. 
<SnowQueen> http://www.blvd.com/judson/ 
<SnowQueen> that is where I found mine judi:} 
<Mooooooo> cool carly 
<SnowQueen> oops 
<SnowQueen> can I do that in here ? 
<judi> Thanks Snowqueen 
<maggie> sell to who hellokit ..just you or to ppeople on 
    this channel? 
*** jrt has joined #disabled
<rosie_> hi jrt 
<judi> hi jrt 
<SnowQueen> your welcome judi :} 
<Lily> hi jrt 
<SnowQueen> hi jrt :} 
<jrt> heloo everybody, sorry i am late:) 
<maggie> hi Debbie 
<HelloKit> to me... I think he got my name from a family 
    friend who is a car salesman. 
<jrt> hello 
<gregsgg> hi jrt 
<HelloKit> Did anyone manage to find a way to save a 
    significant amount of money on the purchase or adaptation 
    of a vehicle? How? 
<judi> Lily, if you see anything that might help me, let 
    me know 
<Lily> i could get some info, send it down 
<Mooooooo> Yeah, I paid cash for mine. Car dealers will 
    kiss butt for cold hard cash 
<judi> thanks 
<SnowQueen> some car dealers give you a rebate to pay for 
    accessibility options 
<gregsgg> Calif doesnt cost me any thing all I do is go 
    to work they pay for it 
<maggie> in Illinois if you have a drs prescription for a 
    van you don't pay sales tax 
<jrt> I dont have a car 
<HelloKit> I've heard that Daniel... if only I ever had a 
    chance of holding $18,000 cash in my hand... 
<gregsgg> some banks offer low interst loan that are sub. 
    by the us gov 
<SnowQueen> whats 18,000 dollars ? :} 
<HelloKit> Oh I'm sure it's just pocket change for some 
    :oP 
<Lily> lol, sq 
<SnowQueen> I have maybe $20 in savings :} 
<SnowQueen> it will by gas :} 
<SnowQueen> buy 
<jrt> well thats more than me SQ,lol 
<judi> Not much 
<HelloKit> I've often wondered if I could ever manage to 
    become good buddies with Bill Gates... 
<SnowQueen> lol 
*** Pyro has joined #disabled
<gregsgg> hi pyro 
<Lily> hi pyro 
<jrt> no I am going to marry off Sarah to a 
    millionaire,lol 
<HelloKit> 'Oh by the way Bill, got any spare change? I 
    could sure use a van. 
<HelloKit> ' 
<judi> Let's see-after the doctor bills, hospital bills, 
    pharmacy bills----- 
<gregsgg> yep 
<judi> hi pyro 
<jrt> Hi Pyro:) 
*** mrsd81 has joined #Disabled
<Lily> hi mrsd 
<maggie> what is the price range for a van with a lift 
    new 
<judi> hi mrsd 
<mrsd81> hi everyone 
<maggie> hi mrsd 
<jrt> Hi mrsd81:) 
<mrsd81> hi 
*** KRS-1 has joined #disabled
<jrt> Hi krs 
<gregsgg> hi krs 
<HelloKit> Has anyone ever encountered a problem being 
    insured as a disabled driver? How was it solved? 
<Mooooooo> carly, is that $18,000 retail or wholesale? 
<KRS-1> hi 
*** KRS-1 has left #disabled
<Lily> we're talking u.s. dollars here? 
<judi> so, who told the insurance co-they haven't asked 
<Mooooooo> i dont know if being disabled will affect your 
    rates 
<HelloKit> That was just a number... we saw a Pontiac 
    TransSport for around that on sale a few months back and 
    would have bought it if we'd had the money. 
<mrsd81> it shouldn't, but I imagine it does, they use any 
    excuse to get a few more dollars. 
<judi> I've had a license since I was 16-can't ever 
    remember being asked about handicap status 
<HelloKit> But that was just the van, not the equip. 
<gregsgg> if you are on ssi or ssdi you can start a pass 
    plan for a vic. in five years my doc bought a new van 
    with his friends 
<mrsd81> All the DMV asks is that yu can read the eye 
    chart. 
<gregsgg> was $ 34:ooo 
<maggie> does any one have the minivan made especially for 
    the disabled 
<gregsgg> yes 
*** Carrie has joined #disabled
<gregsgg> chev 
<jrt> HI carrie:) 
<Carrie> Hi :) 
<maggie> what is a pass plan for a vic? 
<judi> I have a mini van, we put the lift in ourselves 
<HelloKit> Greg, once you have the van does it affect the 
    SSI amount? I was told owning anything of value would 
    lower my amount. 
<gregsgg> you order they send it out to a praivet comp 
    they convert it then deliver 
<judi> Mine is a Voyager 
<mrsd81> Shouldn't vans be excluded, you have to have 
    transportation! 
<judi> Never heard of that either Kit 
<gregsgg> heres the chach if it is adabted vic. It may be 
    worth over the $2.500 dallors limit 
<HelloKit> How many are looking into learning to drive 
    and/or adapting a vehicle within the next couple years? 
    Have you found anything helpful so far? 
<judi> That's not the same as disability is it? 
<gregsgg> it must be outfidted in some way for a disabled 
    preson 
<gregsgg> then there is no limit on the cost of the vic 
<maggie> i am for my brother hello kit within the next 
    two months 
<judi> SSI, I mean 
<Lily> waiting for the passenger discussion 
<gregsgg> it cost so much to have a van outfitted for 
    disabled they dont put a limit on the price 
<maggie> nothing helpful...rehab didn;t even broach the 
    subject of driving 
<gregsgg> if you like I can give you the address for this 
    info 
<mrsd81> Do many of you have to depend on public 
    transportation? 
<judi> My physical status would have to improve 
<jrt> well I am thinking about ringing up any driving 
    schools that have courses for advanced drivers so I can 
    get my confidence again 
<judi> No, just relative transportation 
<rosie_> thats a good idea jrt 
<Lily> can't use it either:( 
<HelloKit> Voc. Rehab. has done nothing for me. They said 
    they would pay for adaptations if I paid for the van, but 
    I have little faith that they'd follow through with that... 
<judi> I think we are destined to be passengers, Lily 
<HelloKit> Based on what they've done in other areas... 
<Lily> like judi, depend on friends and relations 
<gregsgg> OR is not a very disabled friendly state 
<HelloKit> I'm starting to discover that... 
<mrsd81> We have a transport service here, but it is 
    expensive..$2.00 per mile, or the city bus, but it is not 
    as reliable. 
<jrt> my father in law drives me round at the moment, he 
    also lives with us:) 
*** maggie has left irc (Ping timeout for maggie starvomodem47.mc.net])
<SnowQueen> has Voc. Rehab done anything for you Kit? I 
    just went and saw them a few weeks ago 
<gregsgg> if you can take a buss to work they wont pay 
    for adabtions they dont consider it cost aficive 
<judi> I live in the country-no public transportation 
    available 
<Lily> we could write tips on passenger ettiquette, judi:)) 
<judi> This is true, Lily 
<gregsgg> you have to pick a line of work that will make 
    having a van cost worthy to them 
<mrsd81> What problems have you encountered Lily? 
<HelloKit> No, nothing. They even reneged on a promise to 
    pay for a college writing class I took, and when the 
    class was over I found out they had never paid and I got 
    no credit. 
<Lily> as a passenger, mrsd? 
<SnowQueen> thats not good Kit.. and our taxes pay for 
    that.. 
*** maggie has joined #disabled
<gregsgg> you dont have a very good worker kit 
<judi> hi maggie 
<maggie> sorry got disconnected 
<gregsgg> wb maggie 
<maggie> thanks 
<Lily> cars or trucks that are too short or tall to get 
    into, open sunroofs... 
<HelloKit> They kept telling me they had sent the money 
    too. First they said they sent it to me and I would hand 
    it over to the school, then a few weeks later they told 
    me they had sent it right to the school. 
<gregsgg> blonds like sun roofs 
<HelloKit> Do you have any questions or concerns which 
    someone who is already driving may be able to help you 
    with? 
<Lily> brb, phone 
<judi> There are vehicles I can't get into-too short or 
    too tall-like Lily said-I pretty much just travel in my 
    van 
<judi> My fear is that because of my severely restricted 
    mobility, I'll cause a wreck. 
<jrt> I just have to get my confidence back 
<judi> Gotta go guys, fatigue is taking over. So happy to 
    be able to join in the chat again. Love you all. 
<Lily> bye judi 
<maggie> bye judi 
*** judi has left irc (Leaving)
<jrt> byes Judi Take care:) 
<mrsd81> Good night judi 
<HelloKit> I worry about that too judi, but for me it's 
    more because the therapist that did my evaluation was not 
    thorough at all and even made some bad recommendations, and 
    now I really don't know what I need. 
<gregsgg> bye bye judi 
<SnowQueen> bye judi :} 
<Mooooooo> bye judi *hug* 
<HelloKit> I'm afraid I'll get the wrong setup and not be 
    able to use it. 
*** kryla has joined #disabled
<SnowQueen> come back again judi :} 
<SnowQueen> hi kryla :} 
<kryla> hi SnowQueen 
<gregsgg> hi kryla 
<kryla> hi gregsgg 
<jrt> what about driving ogrinizations,they sometimes have 
    places or people that can help you 
<maggie> are there people that do consulted to help decide 
    what you need or do you find out thru the network of 
    friends ? 
<gregsgg> bbl later all din din 
*** gregsgg has left irc (Leaving)
<Lily> bye, greg 
<jrt> orginizations 
<HelloKit> There are physical therapists who specialize in 
    driving and assistive tech. evaluation. 
<Lily> long distance call, bbl 
*** Lily has left irc (Leaving)
* HelloKit . o O ( And then there are those who are 
    obviously in the wrong specialty... ) 
<SnowQueen> Makes you wonder how they got the jobs they 
    are in .;. 
<jrt> yeah I think sometimes they are in it for the money 
    only 
<mrsd81> There are many challanges, perhaps some of the 
    therapists are inexperinced. 
*** kryla has left #disabled
<HelloKit> This one had been doing it for several years. 
<HelloKit> Those who already drive, any additional 
    information or advice you can give? 
<Mooooooo> yep, always look before backing up 
<HelloKit> lol 
<mrsd81> What problems do you face finding parking that 
    accomodates vans? 
<Mooooooo> most do 
<Mooooooo> minivans fit anywhere 
<HelloKit> Something I've always wondered... 
<HelloKit> The access lanes next to disabled parking spaces 
    are wide enough for a lift to be lowered - but does it 
    really leave you much room to actually roll off of the 
    lift? 
<SnowQueen> learn to protect yourself when you are alone 
    and driving 
<mrsd81> But if a car parks to closely, sometimes people 
    can't use the lift. 
* Carrie must go see you sunday 
*** Carrie has left #disabled
<jrt> yeah a sirrup iron and leather are good for that, 
    or a steering lock thingy 
<HelloKit> There are usually no parking zones in between 
    the spaces, mrsd, that's what I was just asking about. 
<mrsd81> I see. 
<mrsd81> Once you get to thse store or whereever, do you 
    find decent ramps and doors you can use. 
*** Lily has joined #disabled
<Lily> rehi 
<HelloKit> I have never had a problem, but I don't take 
    my wheelchair everywhere, only to big places like the mall, 
    zoo, science museum... 
<jrt> wb Lily:) 
* Mooooooo will be back in 10 mins 
*** Mooooooo has left irc (Leaving)
<SnowQueen> k 
<SnowQueen> when they have steep ramps and no handrails is 
    where I have a problem 
<SnowQueen> but thats not often 
<Lily> same her 
<Lily> here 
<SnowQueen> :) 
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed May 13 19:04:47 1998