*** LOG OPENED: Wed May 12 10:59:49 1999
---
Participants:
  disabled
  ChanServ (nanook@eskimo.com)
  Lily
  beat
  Mooooooo- (azdse@uswest.net)
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<Lily> Tonight we are going to address one of the hot 
    issues that exists amongst the disabled community. 
    It is the hierarchy of disabilities which tends to 
    are only...." attitude. Sometimes it exists in an 
    opposite attitude, one of self-satisfaction and 
    smugness,  At least I'm not THAT bad. 
<Lily> As with any other kind of intolerance, this division 
    is often caused by ignorance. 
<Lily> It has been one of the goals of these meetings to 
    educate each other about different disabilities, and 
    how people cope with them. It is our hope that 
    tonight's meeting furthers that goal. 
<Lily> ill give you all a min. to read that 
<Lily> i guess the first question is,Some disabilities are 
    considered to be more acceptable within the 
    disabled community, than others. Why? 
<Mooooooo-> people are afraid of what they dont understand 
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<beat> ! 
<Lily> beat? 
<camille> ! 
<Lily> cam? 
<camille> i think most ppl think of wheel chairs only when 
    it comes to disiblities 
<Lily> theres no rules tonight, so feel free to speak when 
    you want 
<beat> But an't we talkimg more within the disabled comuity 
    itself 
<Lily> true, is the sterotype 
<Lily> yes, beat, within the community 
<Lily> like, paras look down on quads (not all cam:))) 
<camille> o ic what you mean now 
<camille> oh well i have never thought as myself better 
    than someone else 
<Lily> and invisible disabilities not given credibility 
<Lily> no, cam, it not universal 
<camille> yes like someone with heart codition 
<beat> Here in AU, there seem to be a real line, like 
    para then quad then the deaf then the blind 
<Lily> exactly 
<Lily> have you run into that moooooo? 
<Mooooooo-> i used to in school 
<Mooooooo-> but not so much anymore 
<Lily> were you teased alot? 
<Lily> why is that? 
<Mooooooo-> i was in a school for disabled kids 
<beat> and so on, if your born with a dis your right 
    down on the list 
<Lily> you would think theyd be the most tolerant 
<Mooooooo-> kids are kids 
<Mooooooo-> disabled or not 
<Lily> true, moooo 
<Mooooooo-> and since we were all in our own element, we 
    could be just as bad as anyone else 
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<Lily> wb kark:) 
<Lily> we talking bout the disabled heirarchy 
<Kark> thanks, I thought I would stick it out a little 
<Lily> great 
<Lily> have you experiended it, kark? 
<Kark> What's heirarchy? 
<Lily> kind of as ladder 
<Lily> wher dis. are ranked 
<beat> I went to a disable school , I can't say I found 
    that 
<Lily> so, yor experience different than moos? 
<Kark> oh, I am sorry I get it 
<Lily> Have any of you had personal experiences of this 
    that you would like to 
<Lily> share? 
<Lily> speak freely, kark, is open tonight 
<beat> of course we only had the one dis. so that maybe 
    the dif 
<Kark> I went to regular schools and I a very visably 
    disabled 
<Lily> i had letter today from lady in the UK, with 
    chronic fatigue syndrome 
<beat> Sorry I must leave 
<Lily> and were you accepted, kark? 
<Lily> np, beat, bye 
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<Kark> I was treated well for the most part 
<Kark> kids can be cruel sometimes but not the rule 
<Lily> this lady said its still called the yuppie disease 
<Lily> did u get teased much, kark? 
<camille> i was not allowed into a ladies club once 
    because of wheel chair 
<Lily> why cam? 
<Lily> access or stigma? 
<Kark> a few but had many friends and they were a good 
    support, I was teased in front of my freiends or they 
    would get it 
<camille> they felt when they had an activity that i would 
    spoil it 
<camille> like if they had a rollig skating party i 
    could'nt go 
<Kark> I shyed away from activities that would single me 
    out for things 
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<camille> i told them i understood and i did 
<Steve101> hi guys 
<Lily> hi steve 
<Steve101> hi lily 
<Kark> hi steve 
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<Lily> we talking about growing up with a dis. 
<Steve101> kewl 
<Lily> how were you treated?? 
<Lily> :) 
<Steve101> i was usuallt treated great 
<Steve101> everyone tried to include me 
<Lily> were you accepted steve? 
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<Steve101> yes 
<Steve101> treated like one of the guys 
<Lily> hmmmmmmmm, why such a difference? 
<Steve101> huh? 
<Lily> moooo and beat had very different experiences 
<camille> when i was in high school was a few disabled 
    and we included them in 
<Lily> they were teased 
<Steve101> not me 
<Mooooooo-> not teased about disabilty 
<Steve101> i had lots of friends 
<Lily> does age play a factor? 
<Mooooooo-> normal stupid kid teasing 
<Lily> o, i c, moo, i misunderstood 
<Steve101> few kids teased me 
<camille> my brother was never teased either he had poloin 
    arm 
<Kark> Were you teased about your cow spots 
<camille> he played basket ball on school team 
<Mooooooo-> lol 
<camille> and baseball 
<Lily> ok, then why within disabled community itsdelf is 
    there this level thing? 
<Steve101> i played 3rd base...lol 
<Lily> lol 
<Kark> You know I think I tuned out the negitive things 
<camille> me tookark 
<Lily> as an adult, do you find you are more vocal? 
<camille> i don't think in levels i hope 
<Lily> no, cam, but many do, apparently 
<Kark> I have been out with friends that said how do you 
    stand when people stare at you like that, I say like 
    what......I don't realize it and then my freinds embarrse 
    me 
<Lily> andit a problem that divides the dis. community 
<Steve101> i don't mind people staring 
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<Kark> Hi anny 
<Lily> hi anny 
<anny1> hi 
<Steve101> hi anny 
<camille> i no i am glad I not a qud but i admire them 
<Kark> me too 
<camille> they have more spirit then me 
<Steve101> lol 
<Lily> we talking bout our experiences being dis, anny 
<Lily> lol, true grit 
<anny1> ok 
<camille> when u really look at ppl we all have a 
    diability 
<Lily> anny, have you experienced intolerance among dis. 
    ppl? 
<Kark> yes] 
<camille> some worst t hen others but does not make them 
    less 
<Lily> true cam, but it seems that many dont share that 
    view 
<Steve101> true 
<camille> then he** with them pardon me saying 
<anny1> what intolerance in what respect? not sure i know 
    what u r asking lil? 
<Lily> in the disabled community, anny, there are levels of 
    acceptance 
<Steve101> i hate in restaurats when the waiter asks my 
    companion what i want 
<Lily> lol, like u deaf steve 
<Kark> that stinks steve 
<Steve101> no lily 
<Steve101> it's insulting 
<camille> steve I don't give them the chance to do that 
    lol 
<Lily> yes, i agree 
<Lily> ppl talk to me sometimes like im a baby 
<Steve101> me 2 
<atrpilot> same here lily i love it 
<anny1> do you mean looking down on certain types of dis? 
    or level of acceptance of one's own dis? 
<Lily> but, and this is the point, some of the worst are 
    other dis. ppl 
<Kark> There is a manager at work that tells a coworker 
    to tell me things to do instead of coming to me directly 
<Steve101> all my disabled friends are kewl 
<Lily> yes, anny, like being a para is better than being 
    a quad 
<camille> like someone rich is better then poor 
<Lily> i got a letter from a dis person.......... 
<camille> small minds 
<Lily> who said anyone wirh a dis who didnt work was just 
    lazy 
<anny1> grrr they need to try it for awhile and see if 
    they feel lazy 
<Lily> i wondered why a dis. person wud say that to 
    another 
<Kark> that's real stupid 
<Lily> well, it made me mad 
<Steve101> it would make me mad too 
<camille> there are some who can work and chose to do so 
    but not all of us can 
<camille> or able to 
<Lily> id love to work, but bad balance, reading probs, 
    tremors, etc., make me unemployable 
<Steve101> i work with my mind 
<anny1> i think that in general dis. ppl are less likely 
    to judge others 
<Kark> I fear I won't be able too so I try to push 
    myself while I have the strenght to 
<Lily> i was a teacher till i had brain tumor 
<Lily> u think so, anny, why? 
<camille> i thnk so lily ,too 
<Lily> yes, steve, me too:) 
<Steve101> i guess i'm in a different situation than u 
    guys 
<Lily> why is that, steve? 
<Kark> I agree but I feel sometime I don't know what to 
    say to some people who I meet with a dis 
<Steve101> i was born disabled 
<anny1> cause we are disabled and know how unfair it is 
    to judge others 
<camille> yes 
<Steve101> all of my parts...what there is....works 
<anny1> i was born with dis also? 
<Kark> me too 
<atrpilot> Larry Flint is most hated man and para in USA 
    but he works every day and no one gives him crap not 
    even GOV. 
<anny1> hehe pilot 
<Steve101> ok anny and kark...did not know 
<Lily> :) 
<anny1> he is hated cause he is a porn king not cause 
    para i bet 
<Lily> its the discrimination in the disabled community 
    itself that scary 
<Lily> im just starting to experience it 
<atrpilot> but don't stop him anny 
<Kark> I think that we together her make a difference to 
    each other 
<camille> do you get alot of it lily 
<Lily> yes, cam, i do 
<camille> froom different ppl 
<Kark> Talking about our fears and obsticles we face gives 
    a great understanding 
<anny1> discrimination although not good is a part of the 
    human experience, we disabled just get more of the 
    experience it seem 
<Lily> maybe because a lot of my dis. are hidden 
<Lily> i look normal till i move:) 
<camille> ok i see 
<Steve101> i look normal in a dark room 
<Lily> lol 
<camille> i had the same thing happen to a guy today at 
    a sci group 
<anny1> me 2 steve hehe 
<Kark> lol, me too but must be real dark 
<Steve101> right kark 
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<Lily> hi ray 
<Ray-1> hi. 
<Steve101> hi ray 
<Lily> well, whats the solurtion to stop this 
    discrimination? 
<camille> he was in scooter when ready to go he got up 
    took it apart and carried it to his truck and loaded it 
<anny1> i look knormal over the phone steve 
<Lily> oops, forgie typos:) 
<camille> now what was wrong with him 
<Steve101> me too anny 
<Lily> how can we stop this sniping at each other? 
<camille> just tell them not to jude unless they wallk in 
    your shoes 
<camille> judge 
<Steve101> especially my shoes 
<Lily> any ideas? because it does exist 
<camille> or roll in chair lol 
<Kark> I have a freind who is preety, thin and has a lot 
    going for her but she is so hung up on her weight that 
    its debilitating, everyone has a disability in there own 
    way 
<Lily> true kark 
<camille> yes kark 
<Lily> how do you change ppls attitudes? 
<camille> maybe they do it and don't realize it lily 
<Lily> o, i think calling someone a parasite, you realize 
    it 
<camille> well yes 
<Steve101> well....have to go....bye all 
<camille> some ppl you can't help lily 
<camille> bye steve 
<Lily> ppl with heart or lung probs are worst off 
<Steve101> bye cam and all 
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<Lily> bye steve 
<Kark> I am sorry, I have to go too 
<camille> yes they are 
<Lily> ok, kark 
<Lily> any closing thoughts? 
<Kark> yes because it unseen 
<Kark> thats the kind people think are lazy 
<Lily> exacytly, kark 
<Kark> its not far to them 
<Lily> no, but for ppl with breathing probds it is 
<Kark> When I am driving and looking for a handicapped 
    spot my friends have said what are they doing parking 
    there 
<Kark> I have to straighten them out about the unseen 
    disability 
<camille> yes my hubby says that too but stoped him when 
    i explained 
<Lily> because dis is unseen? 
<camille> some ppl just don't reilize it 
<Lily> then whats the answer? 
<Lily> education? 
<Kark> yes 
<camille> yes ab have no idea 
<Kark> sorry to run, good night all 
<camille> and some dis 
<camille> night kark 
<Lily> night kark 
<atrpilot> kill all AB ppl. 
<Kark> lol 
<Kark> bye 
<camille> now pilot 
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<Lily> thanks all for coming 
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<camille> did good lily 
<Lily> thankyou:) 
<Woz> hehe 
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<Lily> moooo, stop log now, please? 
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*** LOG CLOSED: Wed May 12 12:05:48 1999