*** LOG OPENED: Wed Apr 22 18:19:29 1998
---
Participants:
  HandiBot
  lisiado
  gregsgg
  Gilbert
  ChanServ
  phoenyxx
  crafty3
  Emilie (melief@hotmail.com)
  rose
  fence
  Lily-1
  HelloKit (disabled@softhome.net)
---
<Lily-1> carly, before u start can i ask a question/ 
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<phoenyxx> this one is appropriate....I'm getting ready to 
    look for my own place (again!) and need some info to make 
    getting an attendant work better than last time . 
<hanover9> hows it going 
<phoenyxx> brb----tea time! 
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<hanover9> forgot meeting 
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<crafty3> meetings are too late for me 
<rose> hi ys rosie 
<rose> ya 
<crafty3> maybe some time they will have them early for us 
    on the east coast 
<gregsgg> hi kitt 
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<gregsgg> fresh dipped kitty 
<Emilie> hi corn 
<crafty3> well, its my bedtime all 
<Corn> hi 
* crafty3 ~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~ 
* crafty3 I've got to go now....................HUGS ALL 
* crafty3 ~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~o~«©»~@~«©»~ 
<gregsgg> no its not! 
* crafty3 ..............Consoles Everyone:............... 
* crafty3 *********************************************** 
* crafty3 Regret that ya'll must bid me adieux, thereby 
* crafty3 ***** creating a void in your existance, ***** 
* crafty3 *************** I GAW-RON-TEE! **************** 
* crafty3 But don't grieve excessively I shall return! 
* crafty3 *********************************************** 
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<gregsgg> waaaaa!! 
<phoenyxx> back! 
<gregsgg> WB 
<Lily-1> the latest communique on the newslist means we 
    have to de-subscribe from what? 
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<gregsgg> wb L 
<Laura2> hi 
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<HelloKit> Okay, logs are already on but I need a couple 
    minutes to get ready... 
<Emilie> hello laura 
<Emilie> debbie :) 
<gregsgg> hi 
<Laura2> hi Emilie 
<fence> hiya jrt 
<phoenyxx> hey jrt! 
<gregsgg> jrt BIG kiss 
<Laura2> hi again jrt 
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<HelloKit> Lily, Anita has made her own mailing list in 
    her address book and has added our list to it. 
<miss_wild> hi again 
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<phoenyxx> if you need a direct line to Microsoft tech 
    support, you can reach Bill Gates by drawing a pentagram 
    on the floor and chanting 'I summon thee' 3 times. 
<miss_wild> hi jrt :) 
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<Laura2> hi rosie...how's your computer? 
<Lily-1> oh, thx 
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<gregsgg> lol 
<rosie_> its still not good 
<Emilie> hello yel 
<phoenyxx> is there a problem with the list? 
<rosie_> so if i leave suddenly again today then you will 
    know its crashed again 
<yel> hi 
<Laura2> ok 
<jrt> brb 
<HelloKit> Are we ready to start? 
<Lily-1> so does that mean we should de-subscribe to 
    anita's list if we want? 
<phoenyxx> locked and loaded.... 
<gregsgg> no mimi ? no mooooooo ? 
<gregsgg> greg just ducked 
<HelloKit> Mimi and Mooooooo are hanging out in Vegas 
    together... 
<Emilie> we are carly 
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<fence> hiya Ket 
<HelloKit> It won't do any good Lily, since she is sending 
    her messages to our list as well. 
<Emilie> migwigcht :) 
<kettt> hi seth...;) 
<kettt> azul em 
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<gregsgg> no kitt there are at my new apt. all my beer 
    is gone 
<phoenyxx> Klatuu baraata nicktoo! 
<HelloKit> Tonight's topic is... 'Life With An Attendant' 
<gregsgg> slow down moooooo 
<Lily-1> ok, i keep getting personal letters from strange 
    gentlemen 
<phoenyxx> wasn't me Lily :-) 
<Lily-1> i'll email you 
<HelloKit> How many require some amount of assistance with 
    daily living from another person on a regular basis? 
<Lily-1> lol 
<rose> me 
<gregsgg> alll day kit 
<Lily-1> a little 
<Laura2> I do....have a live-in aide 
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<kettt> i do 
<gregsgg> sone to be me 
<HelloKit> Hi bojingles :o) 
<phoenyxx> not me currently but I'm supposed to qualify for 
    an attendant when I move this summer. 
<Laura2> one M-F, one F-Sun 
<Laura2> hi ket 
<bojingles> heya whats up 
<kettt> hi Laura...nice to see you..;) 
<gregsgg> all mine have been not good 
<Laura2> you, too, dear 
<Laura2> brb 
<HelloKit> What options are there for attendant care aside 
    from hiring someone (i.e. family, roommates, etc.)? 
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<gregsgg> hard to find someone who is not going to ropp 
    you 
<Laura2> back 
<HelloKit> Hi Dr. Bill :o) 
<Emilie> dr bill :) hi 
<dr_bill> Hi all 
<gregsgg> hi bill 
<gregsgg> nicee 
<floopy> dollar bill? 
<phoenyxx> or accuse you of harassment when they weren't 
    even at your place when the alleged incident occured. 
<HelloKit> Dr. Bill - current question is: What options are 
    there for attendant care aside from hiring someone (i.e. 
    family, roommates, etc.)? 
<dr_bill> I had to come to this meeting. I am loosing my 
    attendent of five years. 
<gregsgg> to seee you again 
<Laura2> I don't know....I've done both live-ins and 
    live-outs, always hired 
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<Laura2> oh, sorry, dr. bill 
<rose> my full time attendant is my boyfriend and when he 
    wans time off i have a friend come in 
<dr_bill> The problem I have with attendents is you are 
    with them more than a spouce. Personallity conflicts are 
    very common. 
<gregsgg> yep that is allways a chancge you take 
<dr_bill> The other problem is I have had to train my 
    attendent myself. 
<HelloKit> ack! gotta change servers... brb 
<Laura2> the hardest thing is that you're not supposed to 
    be personal, but when they are here 24/7, that's impossible 
<gregsgg> but al greeen says it will work 
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<gregsgg> no its not 
<gregsgg> just leave kitt 
<Laura2> nearly, anyway 
<phoenyxx> Laura: I worry about that- some people take 
    simply being polite the wrong way! 
<Laura2> brb 
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<gregsgg> DR. bill can I just call you Bill is that ok? 
<dr_bill> It is really hard to find a compatible attendent. 
    There is not an over abundant supply of attendents. 
<dr_bill> You sure may. 
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<dr_bill> Bill is fine. 
<Emilie> wb carly 
<HelloKit> sheesh 
<gregsgg> I know you worked hard for that but it is so 
<Laura2> my aide, Eryn, quit unexpectedly and moved next 
    door 
<gregsgg> hard for me BIG hug and kiss dr. bill 
<HelloKit> What attendant arrangements (hired, roommate, 
    family) have you tried and what worked best for you? 
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<rose> boyfriend so far 
<phoenyxx> first time I had my own place I did have an 
    attendant but it took two months to actually find one, and 
    the one 'candidate' before her only came by once and then 
    filed a harrassment complaint against me, and I was almost 
    facing legal trouble. 
<jrt> sorry back again:) 
<phoenyxx> don't want that to happen again but I can't 
    simply get my own place again and do without any help. 
<Laura2> Now she's crying that that it's a bad situation 
    next door and wants to move in, but I can't let her 
<dr_bill> I have had both live in and hourly attendent 
    care. I have found that the 12 hour shifts work the best. 
    You have a chance to keep your sanity. :-) 
<phoenyxx> I currently make do with no attendant- I live 
    with my parents who have no clue about my situation. 
<Laura2> yeah, I guess so 
<gregsgg> kitt thats is hard to answerser they wont lited 
    me hire my famliy so gust have to put up with there care 
    wont start or they have boy prop. 
<gregsgg> car 
<HelloKit> I tried a volunteer hand-picked by school 
    officials for a two-week trip to Seattle... NEVER AGAIN. 
<Laura2> brb 
<Laura2> I've done that...bad 
<jrt> well I dont really have any attendedants as such, 
    just my father in law driving me around 
<dr_bill> I have traveled all over the world and found the 
    only way to get good care was to make arrangements to 
    stay in a hospital. 
<HelloKit> Right now I have my boyfriend... it's working 
    out alright. 
<dr_bill> That 
<dr_bill> That is great Kit. I wish you the best. 
<gregsgg> kitt they said he beat you ealyler 
<gregsgg> bad news 
<HelloKit> I'll admit it isn't perfect, but it's better 
    than my family was the whole time while I was growing up. 
<Lily-1> brb, phonecall 
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<dr_bill> Speaking of attendents. My night attendent just 
    showed up and has dinner ready. Will see you all later. 
<gregsgg> hi bay 
<HelloKit> Greg... huh??? not mine 
<jrt> by dr bill:) 
<Emilie> bye bye doc :) 
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<gregsgg> bye bill 
<phoenyxx> I'm trying to figure out ways I can get my own 
    place and avoid getting an attendant to avoid any trouble. 
<gregsgg> yes kitt they said that you where beat bye him 
<phoenyxx> I can't afford to be sued over a 
    misunderstanding. 
<bayah> hi everyone 
<gregsgg> hi bay 
<HelloKit> Who said that, Greg? 
<jrt> Hi bayah:) 
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<gregsgg> about a hour ago 
<gregsgg> you ok? 
<gregsgg> he not hit you? 
* phoenyxx is confused! 
* HelloKit too... 
<Gilbert> Oh well - gotta go and get off the phone line 
    - for what it's worth, I don't use an attendant, and some 
    things will be easier (or possible) come this summer when 
    my honey and I move in together. 
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<gregsgg> never mined 
<HelloKit> Do you prefer to have a strictly professional 
    relationship with your attendant, or do you prefer to have 
    a more personal relationship? 
<gregsgg> kit can you 
<gregsgg> proessional 
<phoenyxx> ....the short time I had an attendant it was 
    sort of a mix, professional but a good 'working 
    relationship' if that makes sense. 
<phoenyxx> I hope it works out like that this time around. 
<Emilie> bbl :) 
<jrt> I am too stubborn to have an attendant 
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<HelloKit> hehe Debbie 
<phoenyxx> jrt: I'm not subborn, I just know how to stay 
    out of trouble! 
<HelloKit> What are the pros and cons of keeping your 
    relationship with your attendant purely professional? 
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<Kali> hihi 
<HelloKit> Hi Kali :o) current question is: What are the 
    pros and cons of keeping your relationship with your 
    attendant purely professional? 
<phoenyxx> from my limited experience, a 'con' would be 
    that things would be too clinical or technical. 
<jrt> yeah and that too, but I'm able to do most things 
    so I dont think about getting any help, but I know there 
    are people that really do need attendants:) 
<phoenyxx> if it's personal help then I have to be 
    comfortable with that person. 
<jrt> Hi Kali:) 
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* HelloKit nods to phoenyxx. 
<HelloKit> I understand completely. 
<phoenyxx> jrt: I was referring to legal trouble. very hard 
    to avoid and I've had be very careful. 
<Kali> well....to ease letting them go 
<jrt> yeah understand pheonyxx:) 
<phoenyxx> Carly: that's sort of what almost got me busted 
    that time....the first helper came by for an hour and 
    didn't like the job, but reported back to the caseworker 
    like she had been set up or something, and 
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<jrt> Hi Turbo:) 
<phoenyxx> I was stuck having to explain that my being a 
    little forward about ' 
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<bayah> Id like to ask a question Has anyone thats here 
    or do any of you know of a disabled person who has won 
    a suit against someone for discrimination or any other 
    issue that has involved someone who is disabled. 
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<jrt> wb fence:) 
<phoenyxx> 'personal help' was my way of putting myself at 
    ease and I just assumed she had been told about it ahead 
    of time but she hadn't been/ 
<Kali> gregg 
<phoenyxx> . 
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<fencepost> thanks jrt 
<turbokev> hello everyone 
<turbokev> Is it over 
<Kali> /bye 
<HelloKit> nope 
<Kali> pine 
<jrt> wb rose:) 
<HelloKit> still going 
<rose> i got cut off 
<gregsgg> hi rosa 
<phoenyxx> ....in other words, my plan this time around is 
    to establish a true 'working relationship' while still 
    maintaining a proper professional 'boundry'. 
<Kali> bye 
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<phoenyxx> a helper can still be professional without being 
    so clinical and impersonal about it. 
<HelloKit> What are the pros and cons of knowing your 
    attendant on a more personal level? 
<jrt> that sounds like a good idea pheonyxx 
<phoenyxx> con for me is that if things get too friendly, 
    it would be very awkward being that 'close' with someone 
    who 
<phoenyxx> is helping with very personal things, if that 
    makes sense. 
<phoenyxx> but if they were comfortable then it wouldn't be 
    so bad. 
<phoenyxx> thanks jrt :-) 
<HelloKit> Just the opposite with me. 
<Laura2> back 
<HelloKit> I can't feel comfortable with it unless I know 
    the person well. 
<Laura2> me too, carly 
<gregsgg> helps to have it a pro. levell this way you can 
    have some say about what the contorls are 
<rose> comfortable is the key word! 
<turbokev> can we talk about nurse who come to care for 
    us 
<phoenyxx> granted though I haven't had much experience and 
    given enough time I can probably get over being shy about 
    some things. 
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<HelloKit> sure, I would consider that an attendant, 
    turbokev 
<phoenyxx> it just felt weird at times having a normal 
    conversation with my helper then have to ask her to help 
    me 'change'. 
<rose> i use to live in a group home so i am not shy 
    any more 
<HelloKit> Should there be ground rules set and made clear 
    at the beginning of an attendant-client relationship? Should 
    the rules be different depending on whether there is also 
    a personal relationship? 
<gregsgg> yes 
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<phoenyxx> definitely Carly! best way to avoid 
    misunderstandings later! 
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<jrt> Hi SQ:) 
<gregsgg> helps to have that predeterming 
<SnowQueen> hi all :) 
<Laura2> pros are that you gain awareness of them, cons 
    are that sometimes you lose objectivity 
<phoenyxx> rose: I've been in the chair 5 years and I 
    still get shy about a few things. 
<phoenyxx> true Laura! 
<Laura2> Kris:) 
<SnowQueen> Hi Laura *huglz* 
<gregsgg> brb 
<turbokev> Here in Louisville the Attendant program has a 
    waiting list that I've been on since '89 and I'm 4th on 
    the list today 
<Laura2> I still don't know the answer 
<gregsgg> bbl sorry dinner 
<jrt> wow turbo 
<HelloKit> What are some rules that should be set? 
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<SnowQueen> have you found a new attendent Laura ? 
<turbokev> There should be ground rules 
<jrt> yes I agree 
<phoenyxx> basic rule for me is to tell me right off if 
    there's a problem with any of the arrangement. 
<turbokev> No romance 
<phoenyxx> I mean for them not to worry about telling me, 
    I need to hear it if they are sincerely uncomfortable with 
    some aspect of it. 
<Laura2> To be honest, I cried when Eryn left even though 
    I needed a more mature aide, and cried when Jenny came 
    because we aren't connected 
<phoenyxx> that too kev :-) 
<Laura2> so? 
<jrt> what do you want from an aid laura?? 
<Laura2> not for weekends, SnowQueen 
<SnowQueen> k 
<phoenyxx> Laura: on that subject, should I worry about me 
    being 'nice' getting misinterpreted as an ulterior motive? 
    I'm more comfortable with women helping anyway but don't 
    want to get myself into 
<phoenyxx> trouble over something really stupid. 
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<jrt> looks like you want a friend and aid, not that 
    there is anything wrong with that 
<phoenyxx> jrt- exactly- I can be friendly and still 
    respect any 'boundries' on a professional level. 
<HelloKit> Do you guys think an attendant should be able 
    to make you work around their schedule? As in, you do 
    something when they're ready to do it, whether you yourself 
    are ready or not? 
<jrt> thats how I would want and aid, to be a friend as 
    well 
<turbokev> I receive nursing service on medicaid waver but 
    it probably won't last 
<Laura2> It doesn;t exist, but I want to be more than a 
    job 
<jrt> thats a hard on Craly?? 
<jrt> carly,sorry 
<phoenyxx> depends on the situation Carly....I get picky 
    about some routines but on the other hand it wouldn't hurt 
    to have dinner a little earlier than I'm used 
    to---basically depending on what it is I can be flexible. 
<jrt> one 
<turbokev> no they should work around our schedule 
    reasonably 
<jrt> true turbo, but it depends on the situation I think 
<turbokev> nurses from agencies have to 
<Laura2> I worked around Eryn's schedule,,,,she was young, 
    but I found myself more and more jumping to her mood,etc 
<jrt> yeah that could happen 
<HelloKit> Well, here's where that question is coming 
    from... this girl that went to Seattle with me would sit 
    in the lounge and watch TV in the evenings while I was 
    writing letters, etc. 
<phoenyxx> geez... 
<Laura2> wasn't good in that, but as a friend she was 
    great 
<Laura2> so I think it also depends on where they are in 
    life 
<turbokev> come on your schedule 
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<phoenyxx> In my case, some things I need help with vary 
    from day to day, so a helper has to be ok with coming 
    by one day and not needing to do much but possibly having 
    to do more the next day. 
<turbokev> I've heard some horror stories about attendants 
<jrt> thats fair enough phoenyxx 
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<jrt> wb rose:) 
<SnowQueen> wb rose :) 
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<rose> thanks guys i keep getting cut off 
<turbokev> wheres moo 
<Laura2> a 50-year-old is going to have less of a desire 
    for freedom than a 19 yo 
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<phoenyxx> jrt- :-) 
<Laura2> what happened on the Seattle trip, Carly? 
<jrt> on a holiday turbo:) 
<turbokev> Laura2 I don't think so 
<SnowQueen> cant you sit down with your attendent and set 
    ground rules? 
<turbokev> yes 
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<phoenyxx> SnowQueen- that's sort of what I was saying, 
    letting an attendant know about individual needs and 
    sometimes little quirks :-) 
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<joel-> hello, all. 
<jrt> Hi Joel:) 
<SnowQueen> Hi joel- 
<fence> hiya joel 
<Laura2> ok, depending on your definition, turbo, but mature 
    aides are usually less apt to scream 'Tou are being 
    unfair' 
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<joel-> Hi, Debbie, how are you? 
<rose> hi joel 
<jrt> great and you?? 
<joel-> Hiya. Just fine here. 
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<jrt> Hi Scott:) 
<Laura2> brb 
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<MrLinux> hey 
<MrLinux> is there a heeting? 
<MrLinux> meeting 
<phoenyxx> what I want to avoid also is someone helping 
    then getting mad about it later...some people do that, and 
    act like they got conned or something. 
<SnowQueen> put it in writing .. 
<phoenyxx> that's why I was saying that you should get 
    some things established first. 
<Laura2> yeah, I can relate 
<phoenyxx> exactly SnowQueen :-) 
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<Kali> rhi 
<jrt> wb kali:) 
<Kali> re 
<Laura2> but sometimes even establishing doesn't prevent 
    resentment 
<Kali> ?? 
<jrt> no it doesnt laura, unfortunately 
<Laura2> establishing rules for aides, joe 
<phoenyxx> Laura: that's something I hope I can keep from 
    happening. 
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<HelloKit> argh! 
<jrt> wb Carly:) 
<HelloKit> sheesh... where was I? 
<Laura2> they could be fine about a situation one month 
    and then the next month it bothers them 
<Laura2> we're still talkingg about rules, carly 
<phoenyxx> sounds like the health center staff at the local 
    community college here Laura! 
<Laura2> lol 
<phoenyxx> no joke- the whole center seems to operate for 
    a few disabled students and that's it. 
<HelloKit> If you guys got any of what I was saying 
    before, do you think I was right in being upset about it? 
<Laura2> It's fresh in my mind because I've lost 2 aides 
    in 3 weeks 
<phoenyxx> yes Carly. 
<Laura2> what was it, I'm sorry...I was gone for awhile 
<Laura2> true, Phoenyxx 
<HelloKit> Laura: about an aide I took to Seattle with 
    me... she would make me wait until she was done watching 
    TV before she would put me to bed. 
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<Laura2> I've had that experience 
<rose> hi Ray 
<Laura2> hi Ray 
<jrt> Hi Ray:) 
<Ray-1> Hi, everyone. 
<HelloKit> Okay, so next question... 
<HelloKit> Does anyone have any good or bad attendant 
    experiences you'd like to share? 
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<Laura2> YES 
<phoenyxx> there was the incident I already mentioned 
    earlier. 
<Laura2> NEVER SHARE AIDES WITH SOMEONE WHO IS YOUR BEST 
    FRIEND 
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<Laura2> it ruins relationships 
<Laura2> at least in my case 
<Ray-1> What happened, Laura? 
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<Ray-1> How so? 
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<SnowQueen> poor rose.. 
<Laura2> what happens when you disagree on how to manage 
    the aide? with us, It became a 'Well, the reason you need 
    her so much is because you let your disability run your 
    life' 
<KittyEek> SOMEONE does not like me... 
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<Laura2> so said my best friend 
<phoenyxx> it's a conspiracy Carly... :-) 
<SnowQueen> are you being nuked Kitty? 
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<phoenyxx> sorry to hear that Laura.. 
<phoenyxx> hey, time for me to go, so I'll see you all 
    later! :-) 
<Laura2> We love you, carly 
<phoenyxx> bye everyone! 
<phoenyxx> :-) 
<Laura2> ok take care 
<jrt> bye phoenyxx:) 
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<SnowQueen> bye phoenyxx :) 
<rose> bye phoenyxx 
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<rose> got to run so night all:o) 
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<Ray-1> Gotta go, I'm beat. Take care all. 
<SnowQueen> nite rose :) 
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<SnowQueen> take care :) 
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<Laura2> and nowwb 
* HelloKit screams!!!!! 
<Laura2> wb 
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<Laura2> hi Chan 
<HelloKit> Okay, let's get this over with before I get 
    zapped again... :o) 
<HelloKit> What advice would you give to someone looking 
    into getting an attendant? 
<BuddhaCat> make sure the attendant is VERY open-minded 
<Laura2> be clear in the beginning, and consistent with 
    routines 
<Laura2> find someone flexible 
<BuddhaCat> and makes them bend over backwards for you! ;) 
<Laura2> outline everything so there's no cause for 
    resentment 
<Laura2> have a strong sense of self, remember that you 
    are not just someone with a disability 
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* PimpC is away, Working! log:OFF] page:ON] 
    email:MrLinux@Indy.Net] 
*** HelloKit has joined #Disabled
<BuddhaCat> wb Kit 
* HelloKit sighs. 
<HelloKit> I give up. 
<Laura2> try not to start thinking of your body as 
    something which needs help 
*** SnowQueen has left irc (Friends are like jewels..precious :))
<jrt> poor Carly:( 
<HelloKit> Three ISPs and not one will hold a connection 
    for more than 5 minutes. 
*** LOG CLOSED: Wed Apr 22 19:37:51 1998